David Lawrence's new "Make Offer"
toothpuller
Posts: 600 ✭
Has anyone tried it yet? You can make any offer on a select number of items in their inventory. They recommend offering close to the asking price because of their thin profit margin. Heritage has a similar setup, but gives a suggested range for the offer to fall between.
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in coins it is all about the price negoation but again any really great monster coins get sold immediately or sooner if they ever make it to the website in the first place
discounting as usually with monster great one in a million coins they are coins just does not happen and after you buy such a coin it is always immedisately worth more!
but for many it is hard to fathum as at frist the prices sound outrageous but in hindsight they are not
but i guess hindsight is always 20/20...............lol
sincerely michael
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
posting them on a web site. There is usually a mutual understanding between dealer and a good client,
that superb coins will be offered at a fair price with a reasonable mark up by the dealer. If a dealer
knows that you are always going to nibble him down to the nubs, then select material will be offered
to another client who is more realistic in in a willingness to pay a reasonable mark up. Truly superb
coins are getting rather rare, but if its a bargain you are looking for there are always marginal coins
available with limited , washed out luster, poor strike and dark unpleasent tarnish called toning.
In future years, it is usually the superb quality coins , that will garner the runaway prices at auction or
at coin shows.
Camelot
I would then have countered them with $150.
adrian
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
But, if we have a coin listed for $185 it probably/usually means we paid roughly $150 for it. A $40 counter offer, might not be significant in terms of actual dollars, but it's a hefty discount, percentage-wise and one that wont work for us.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
If you are truly uncomfortable with the price on a coin, then make an offer, but do not make an offer, just for sport.
If the coin is priced fairly, buy it.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
myurl
I quote different prices to different people. It often matters if:
1. You're a dealer.
2. We've ever done business before.
3. You always chisel.
4. You take longer to pay for your purchases.
5. You are likely to resell the coin to me when you're ready.
6. You're going to tell people what you paid.
7. I need the money at the time you ask for a price.
8. I've already offered it to stronger buyers and they've passed.
And the list goes on, and on, and on.
What's the point? If there's room for me to vary my quoted price, there could be room for you to counteroffer. Then again, sometimes you're better off paying the full asking price. It just depends.
For all it's worth, I counteroffer on less than 30% of the coins I purchase, not including auctions, of course.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth because the old adage is:
it's your coin for sale, price it. Don't expect me to price a dealer's coin. This is one way to get around that and leaves the seller doubly in the driver's seat. You don't know what they really want for it and leaves you taking shots in the dark. So the only solution is to offer "less" than you would really pay.
roadrunner
In my opinion, DL is using this "make an offer" sham just to get collectors to interact with them about certain coins. Once they get you on the hook, there's a better chance that you will purchase. This is an elementary marketing strategy that insults my inteligence. I can't believe how many of you "seasoned veterans" actually fall for this crap.
You understand their motives perfectly. How can you possibly call it a "sham"?
Would it be a sham if the seller of a house encouraged you to make a counteroffer?
Would it be a sham if a car dealer encouraged you make a counteroffer?
Edited to say: NumisEd, do you always pay full price? Have you ever counteroffered? Are YOU a seasoned veteran???
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Many of us have a small grouping of dealers that insure a steady stream of quality coins at
fair prices. Once in a while we go outside of that group and get burned, but not that often.
Camelot
NumisEd, I believe you failed to answer my questions. Did you understand them, or shall I rephrase them for you?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I would also like to make the point that if you offer your exceptional pieces to your favorite clients first and put the marginal stuff out for the public, you're really needlessly limiting your own opportunity for growth as a business. When a new customer comes along and sees only marginal coins being offered, with nothing of interest, they will usually move on. Giving everybody the same shot at every coin you have is the best way, IMO, to grow your business because it actually encourages new customers to become loyal to you rather than just an inner circle of favored clients.
are in communication on a regular basis with the dealer. We find out about new material before it is
posted.Your assumption that what is left is marginal is incorrect. A good dealer will have adequate
material of top quality left to post on their website.
Camelot
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The nicest coin in my collection was purchased from David Lawrence, off their website, at full retail price. Since then, I have had multiple offers that would give me a significant profit on the coin.
I've purchased several coins from DL, but only when I felt the listed retail price was low. I have never purchased a coin from them where I liked the coin but not the price...although I have tried. I haven't seen this new feature yet at DL; but I do like the fact that Heritage spells out their make an offer range and policy in plain language and feel that other dealers should do likewise.
As for markups...its a small world. I can usually find out what a national dealer paid for the coin I am looking at; and in many cases (but not always) I find their markups to range from offensive to insane.
RELLA
who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
twenty times.
The word "Sham", according to Webster's Dictionary, means, illusion or delusion. I did not use it to imply anything derrogatory about DL. I later changed my statement to "scam", since it is now apparent that you have a very light grip on the English language and you might understand that word.
Would it be a sham if the seller of a house encouraged you to make a counteroffer?
Yes, in a sense, but it would not be a scam.
Would it be a sham if a car dealer encouraged you make a counteroffer?
Yes. Now I think that you are finally started to understand.
NumisEd, do you always pay full price? Have you ever counteroffered? Are YOU a seasoned veteran???
No, yes and the answer to the final question is a matter of opinion. I am a seasoned collector who is sick and tired of all of the hype that the "mega dealers" throw in our faces every day. I am tired of the infantile marketing techniques that the "big guys" utilize in Coin World ads. For example, I loathe the guys that use symbols to describe the coins that they are selling. DL uses some stupid star rating system. Did you ever notice that every coin has 5 stars? David Hall and Gus Tiso also use similar systems. Ridiculous! That's why I only buy from a few, reliable, collector-friendly dealers.
As far as profit margin goes. I bought a batch from them a couple of months ago. When I pilled their stickers off the back of the slabs. I found the prices they paid in blue marker. They made at least 80% (does not take into account their extensive expenses) on every coin I bought from them.
David
Yours and several others, but that's the coin I got from them.
Now, let's talk coins. Please tell us more about yourself and your nice coin collection!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Karl, unless we're talking Yap stone money, I would think it has to be more expensive to ship a small coin dealer than a coin!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don't find arguements of high overhead compelling. I will buy the coins I want from whatever dealer has it at the best price. High overhead doesn't do much for me. It's a pretty competitive market and plently of fine dealers have reasonable overhead. I am also not impressed by how much anyone paid for a coin. If you buy a coin and the market goes up before you sell it, do you keep your price low? Probably not? By the same token, if you as a dealer paid too much, or the market declines, I am not going to base my offer on what you paid. Dealers don't make offers for my coins based on what I paid. Rather on what they are worth. No one likes to take a loss, but sometimes that is necessary.
There is a local dealer who bought a bunch of 73 brown box proof IKEs years ago when they apparently were priced over $100. Now he still wants over $100 for them based on what he paid even though the market is now about $30 the last time I looked. Needless to say, he is not selling very many of them.
Greg
Lastly let me say the last coin I purchased from them was $300 less than one that I missed out on a B&M auction and was just as nice a coin.
This topic certainly has stirred up quite a bit of discussion. This was my first opportunity to view this thread since I've been at a coin show over the weekend, so I have a few comments to add. It seems there are more issues at play here than simply our new offer system.
Let me first emphasize that David Lawrence Rare Coins is NOT an insensitive corporate giant. We are a "small" company with 9 employees, including myself. We are fully committed to the hobby of numismatics and I personally believe that coin collecting is experience a renaissance of sorts today partly because there are a number of very responsible firms, likes ourselves, with this commitment. Yes, it is my goal to make a profit, but not at the expense of collectors' best interests. We also believe that if we treat our customers well they, in turn, will reward us by selling their collections back to us. It is not in our best interest to overcharge for coins. Period.
That brings me to our new counter-offer system... In the past, as coins got older, we reduced the prices to entice people to buy them. This system turned out to be flawed for a couple reasons:
1. We have simply grown too busy to go through our 3500-4500 coin inventory and determine which coins should be reduced, by how much, etc. This is a tremendous amount of work and we were not able to get to it often enough.
2. Because we have limited resources (again, we are not a huge company with unlimited funds!) we need to turn our inventory over 10-12 times per year so we can keep buying great new coins every day. This pressure to sell older coins generally results in our selling inventory through wholesale channels at prices lower than we sell them on the web site. Our best customers are not getting the benefit - our competition is!
My original idea for the offer system was born recently after I made a successful hotel room purchase on Priceline.com. I thought, "wow! What a great system." If we give our customers the ability to make offers on older coins, which would solve the entire dilemma of giving customers the ability to benefit by our desire to aggressively move older inventory. Response in the first week has been overwhelming. We've had over 100 offers in 7 days; about 1/3 of which have resulted in a sale below our original price. It's a win-win situation. I will also emphasize that we DO NOT play any games with our counters/acceptances. If we would sell the coin wholesale for the offer price, we will let it go.
What's more. Even if we accept your offer, we don't require that you purchase the coin. The accepted price is simply stored in a place called "my Offers" where you can then purchase the coin if you like.
In response to a couple other issues that were raised:
1. Profit margins: At the end of the year our average profit margin on coins sold is approximately 15%. On some we make more; others less. In contrast, I believe a typical department store marks their inventory 50-100%. (Note to gentleman who saw our costs written on the label in pen under the sticker: those were not our costs. They were apparently the cost of the person who sold us the coins. Much to my chagrin he wrote on the holders.)
2. Shipping costs: actually shipping costs are indeed higher for a company my size than a 1-2 person shop. Every invoice must be hand-processed, charged, packed shipped and tracked by 2 employees. Costs are inevitable but good customer service is worth a couple extra dollars.
3. Image Quantity: This one pains me the most. We moved to our current location just 2.5 years ago with 5 employees. We now have 9! Two of them (Kim and Shane) create all the images but they also share duties with inventory control, marketing, etc. and we have no more space for additional staff. THE GOOD NEWS: On July 1 DLRC is relocating to a new office with triple the space we currently have and new imagers are on their way. It is my goal to have every coin imaged within 2-3 days, however, we cannot do this until we move. In the meantime, we still feel that's it's better to list the coin on the site as available than to wait until an image is ready.
In summary...
I appreciate all the attention that has been given to us through this forum. Many times, criticisms are well founded and bring on positive change. In any case, it's obvious that collectors are passionate about this hobby which is the surest sign of a healthy coin industry. Also, my endearing thanks to those who support us on this forum. Mark Feld, Laura Sperber and Andy Lustig are two dealers I know well, and they care! As do I...
Please do not hesitate to email me personally if you have any questions/comments: john@davidlawrence.com.
Glenn
I was also surprised by the earlier post regarding images. DLRC images are of good quality -- they are accurate and if anything tend to understate the quality of the coin. When you combine the grading service opinion, DL's star rating, and the image, I believe the internet buyer is in great shape.
Also, one prior comment suggesting that images are available only on request is simply not true -- it may take a few days for the images to get on the site, but virtually all coins that have been up for more than a couple of days have images. (Personally, when I see a coin that I really want and have been looking for for a long time, I pull the trigger without the image, if it is a five star coin)