I don't want PCGS to start grading looser.

mdwoods

Instead, let the other grading companies meet PCGS's standards. Why should I have to watch the value of my PCGS coins go down because a bunch of dealers don't like the way PCGS grades. Personally, I don't think NGC or any other company is up to the standards of PCGS. There are a couple series where this may not be the case, but as a rule, PCGS grades 1/2 to 1 point tougher than the others. Of course this is my opinion, but the market seems to agree. Or maybe, I agree with the market. mdwoods

jeffnpcb

The market only agrees on a monetary exchange, not on the quality of grade! I find it confusing as that a majority of my graded coins are PCGS. When comparing between, my next largest amount, NGC's I see no difference or a better coin in the same grade number. I have several ICG's that make the other two, as far as eye appeal, look like third rate graders.
The only thing that I've seen in all the auctions is for some unknown godly reason, PCGS yields more money for the same grades.
Cut and dried, it appears more and more as a money issue!

mdwoods

I have seen a difference, and no one will convince me otherwise. If you have an ICG coin that nice, you have a true rarity indeed. I'm not saying the other companies never grade up to PCGS's standards, but as a general rule they do not.

TAP444

We don't want looser , we want them to grade to there published standards
and not react to what another service is doing.
Tim

RYK

I agree. PCGS should grade according to standards, but if there is any doubt about grade, pick the lower. If there is any doubt about alteration, the coin should be BB'd. That way, the collector, and ultimately the hobby, is protected.

mdwoods

I don't see the problem. While PCGS is not perfect they are clearly superior. It seems to me that NGC is reacting to PCGS and not vice versa. I have only submitted a few hundred coins to PCGS, but I have been very satisfied. Not on every coin, but on well overy 90% of them. Some dealers agendas on this forum are suspicious, at least to me. They have a heavy stock of NGC graded coins and then rip on PCGS. I have also successfully and unsuccessfully submitted coins for regrade. People pay them for their opinion, that's what they give ya. But I still say their opinion is best. mdwoods

braddick

It's tough to cry when a Dealer doesn't get his MS66 upgraded to MS67. After all, who wants a bunch of "barely-made-it's" entering the market?
Grade Tight. Grade Consistent. But, until PCGS gets down the "consistent" part of the equasion- continue to grade TIGHT!

IrishMike

The point isn't loose or tight. How many times does this have to be repeated? I have 15 red PCGS IHC's graded 64. I make a submission of one cent that is clearly a full grade higher than any in my collection and it comes back 64. That is NOT acceptable to me. This was a no brainer 65. Not that I would know anything about IHC's since I have only been collecting them since the mid-50's. Those of you who are tied into buying mainly PCGS coins should be the ones most concerned with their inconsistency not the ones least concerned. You might look around one day and find out they are no longer the "darling" of grading companies.

If you don't get this point, then just keep sucking down the koolaid.

dbldie55

PCGS will soon have most of the dealers out of business. Then it will not matter. No one wants PCGS to grade looser or tighter. Just consistent. My dealer lost thousands recently because PCGS changed their rules without telling him. He also made out big when he had a MS67 Buffalo grade MS68. The number one Buffalo person in the world bought it, the coin was not a just made coin. It was undergraded as a MS67 and someone lost over $13,000 because of it. (it wasn't the dealer he bought it from as he offered him a chance to go 50/50 on the potential upgrade).

I guess many here would like to have the $15,000 and get paid $1,500 for it because PCGS changed their standards.

mdwoods

I disagree Mike. for your one coin it is about consistency. For the dealers, it's about getting the upgrade to make the big bucks. It is unfortunate that you can not get a reason why your cent does not upgrade when you feel so strongly that it should. Perhaps not getting an explanation is a real problem.

IrishMike

Mark, I could care less about what the dealers get as upgrades. It doesn't affect my collecting one iota. What will affect my collecting is when I go to sale my PCGS coins and how PCGS is perceived. Quite frankly its the reason I quit overypaying for PCGS quarters two years ago.

agfox

Consistancy is the problem.

md if you submitted those ms69 quarters multiple times how many times would the come back 69's? I'd wager you'd get some 68's. I just want the appropriate grade on the holder, no more, no less.

I don't like the "professional" crackout game either, but if they were consistant there wouldn't be the game.

rainbowroosie

I hope PCGS continues its up and down grading, leaning greatly toward "downgrading everything in site"..... Then, I can pick through 200 PCGS slabs and "steal" the 3 or 4 undergraded coins at bargain prices..... There's absolutely nothing I love more than buying a white flawless 67 or 66+ commem wrongly housed in a 65 holder for 15% over "bid".....Buy the coin not the holder!!!!

CLASSICS

<< <i>Instead, let the other grading companies meet PCGS's standards. Why should I have to watch the value of my PCGS coins go down because a bunch of dealers don't like the way PCGS grades. Personally, I don't think NGC or any other company is up to the standards of PCGS. There are a couple series where this may not be the case, but as a rule, PCGS grades 1/2 to 1 point tougher than the others. Of course this is my opinion, but the market seems to agree. Or maybe, I agree with the market. mdwoods >>

......................well said,...... but i dont want to here..well we are tight now, well they were lose back then......if this keeps up you wont know what you have.

Bear

So what you are saying is that my PCGS MS-66 is really a MS-72 ???? COOL

If PCGS had to tighten up to counter coin doctors or other excesses, perhaps if they so informed

the industry it might make the bagel go down easier.

Perhaps all the reputable grading companies should issue the identical releases, to reassure

the industry and the hobby that they are on top of things. They are protecting the quality of the product.

mdwoods

md if you submitted those ms69 quarters multiple times how many times would the come back 69's? I'd wager you'd get some 68's. I just want the appropriate grade on the holder, no more, no less.

Well, I only have one MS69 quarter. I will agree, there is a chance it could come back as a 68. As long as there is a human element involved there will be a certain amount of inconsistency or chance. To me, that is part of the game. It is a chance you take. It makes life more fun for me. If consistency is the issue, I still say that PCGS should get credit for being the most consistent of the grading services.

Bikingnut

If anything, I would like to see a little more consistancy with grades. I have two 54S Washingtons in PCGS holders that are graded MS64 and MS65. They both look the same with no difference in strike or luster, and no contact marks. I have several in MS65 holders that are better than a couple I have in MS66 holders. I'm not knocking PCGS, they set the standard, just would like to see more consistant grading in the Washington series.

fantasiize

mdwoods,

I am with you, keep that "limbo stick" low. Makes everyone happy, collectors get quality graded coins, overall prices are low, PCGS makes lots of money grading, and re-grading and re-grading and dealers pay for the service.

Oooops, wait a minute, I did say it makes everyone happy ...

DHeath

Mark,

Considering the inverse of the message topic, do you want PCGS to grade tighter? Isn't it possible that the standard could be going that direction? Is that bad? You can prove that your coins are worth more than any of the other services coins are, you can establish with your collectors that their dealer is too loose, and the only grading you can trust is PCGS, you can reduce the crossover rate from competetors, and the owners of existing coins will be delighted with the new premium their collection brings. What is the price of all of this marketing magic? When collectors begin noticing the marked difference in newly holdered coins and older slabs, they loose faith in sight-unseen for PCGS, and when you sell your collection 5 years from now, PCGS's reputation in the community will be suspect. If submissions begin to move across the street, and interest in NGC holders takes off, PCGS becomes less appealing for submitters. Short-term, it is brilliant strategy. Long-term, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Bikingnut

Here's a perfect example of what I mean when I talked about consistancy with the grading. How can this 43P be a 66 with that crater on Georges cheek. There are many Washington's in MS 65 holders with better luster and no contact marks.

43P

Here's a very clean 54S in a 65 holder. I know the saying. Buy the coin not the holder. But it doesn't change the fact that there are inconsistancies. IMO

54S

ah

The problem I see here, that there is no grading standard in the grading. NONE!