Canadian Set Registry

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 16, 2003 1:43AM

Next week on the 21st and 22nd of February is a wonderful auction of Canadian Registry quality coins.It is the Torex Auction in Toronto Canada conducted by Michael Walsh the Canadian Coinoisseur.I believe the auction will be LIVE on E Bay.Michael can be reached by www.coinoisseur.com

Stewart Blay

mdwoods · February 16, 2003 2:54AM

I see they have a PCGS MS66RD 1871 PEI Large cent. Looks like a beauty.

shirohniichan · February 17, 2003 1:49AM

Is he the one selling the 1902H 5 cent piece ACG graded MS-60 that looks like a cleaned AU coin?

mongoose · February 17, 2003 8:55AM

It sure looks that way, shiroh.

shirohniichan · February 17, 2003 2:46PM

I heard he poo-pooed the Belzbergs as concerning themselves with "filling holes" in their collection than in collecting quality coins. If he's the same person, his ACG offering destroys his credibility.

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · February 18, 2003 9:08AM

I hear you Shiro. Bashing a prominent collector, and offering some sub-par slabs without an accurate description of the entombed coins. I'm out of cash, so I can pretend that I'm boycotting the auction.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 18, 2003 10:17AM

Shironiichan - To the best of my knowledge I've only heard you poo-poo everything from the Canadian set registry and everything associated with it and now Michael Walsh
Are you praising Sid Belzberg as he is THE reason there is a Canadian Set Registry.

IMO Michael Walsh was probably upset that he did not get the Belzberg collection.

IMO Michael Walsh has the best auction of Canadian coins regularly and always has some good stuff.

Paul - There are several Canadian 5 cent pieces

1924 PCGS ms 65 1870 flat border PCGS ms 64
1887 PCGS ms 66 pq
1927 PCGS ms 65 1899 Norweb ms 67 pq
1934 PCGS ms 65 1903 PCGS ms 67
1939 PCGS ms 66 1921 PCGS ms 66 pq
1951 High Relief PCGS MS 65

stewart

shirohniichan · February 18, 2003 12:27PM

Sid Belzberg seems like a great guy. No poo-poo on him!

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · February 18, 2003 1:42PM

Stewart - yes, I know, there are some great 5c pieces. Spent a bit at the Belzberg auction, but maybe time to buy a few more. One of the coins you've identified is a potential, but I won't tip my hand.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 19, 2003 8:19AM

Paul

I spoke to a friend in Toronto this morning who also expressed interest in some of the silver five cent coins.
I was hoping to go but I too spent enough at the Belzberg auction

Shironiichan - How about no more poo-poo ing Canadian Numismatics.Sid is a great guy.I know him personally.

Stewart

oreville · February 19, 2003 11:17AM

I happen to like both Mike Walsh and Sid Belzberg! I think they are both great guys. I have met them both and both of them are true Canadian collectors!

Mike tends to be low key and doesn't get excited about things in general. What seems like his poo-pooing is just the way he is. He is that easy going.

I did buy PCGS graded MS-68 Canadian and NFLD dimes from the teens in several of his auctions a few years back.

I have not checked their PCGS pop reports of late. At one time they were "finest known."

One of the dimes had the most awesome toning in which half of the dime was deeply toned gradually become lighter ending in a white coin with a half moon shape as the dividing line and lots of colors near the dividing line. It looks as if another coin sat on this coin about halfway on the coin.

I am usually NOT a big toning fan but this was most incredible.

Since then I have not found any PCGS MS-68 graded Canadian and provincial coins that I have liked and have gone a little bit heavier into buying ICCS MS-67 graded coins which are exceedingly rare..

Buy the way, I suggested to David Hall why not slab the ICCS graded coin just the way it is into a PCGS slab with a consenting grade. I happen to believe that is a very low risk venture to get into. But no response as of yet.

shirohniichan · February 20, 2003 1:31AM

Shironiichan - How about no more poo-poo ing Canadian Numismatics.Sid is a great guy.I know him personally.

I don't look down on Canadian numismatics at all! In fact, I collect more Canadian coins than US coins these days. Perhaps my tongue-in-cheek remarks don't translate well for those who don't know that. My barbs are aimed at those who think the registry is the alpha and omega of coin collecting.

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · February 20, 2003 2:27AM

Oreville - are you suggesting encasing ICCS slabs inside PCGS slabs? Interesting idea.

Won't this cause headaches for Condor101 - ICCS slab variety X inside PCGS slab variety X, ICCS slab variety Y inside PCGS slab variety X, etc, etc. The combinations could be endless.

PS - would love to see those MS-68s

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 20, 2003 5:47AM

Paul - Oreville
I feel the best way to crossgrade is to FIRST send the coin to PCGS.It is then encased in hard plastic along with the guarantee.
Then send the coin to ICCS for crossgrading.I spoke to Brian Cornwall about this and he welcomed the offer.
Then you have a coin grade that is guaranteed in the Canadian market for Canadian collectors.

Shironiichan - I will then take your humor toungue and cheek.I have been collecting Canadian small cents religiously.I collect both Specimens and business strikes.

Stewart

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · February 20, 2003 6:19AM

I've always been hesitant to send a slabbed coin to ICCS for a crossgrade. We've all seen the threads on NGC/PCGS crossing, and the suspected games that are played by both companies. ICCS has a reputation for conservative grading, what better way to reinforce this than grade one step below the competitors (ie: send a PCGS MS-65, and ICCS calls it an MS-64). I don't have any evidence that this is done at ICCS, and their reputation is top notch. But I have seen many instances where companies, in the coin business and outside of it, have sacrificed morals for profits or company reputation.

I don't think PCGS automatically accepting an ICCS grade is a good idea either. ICCS uses Canadian grading, which does not include "eye appeal". I've seen some very ugly coins receive a high ICCS technical grade (and they deserve it) that would suffer a point or maybe two when given a PCGS market grade.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 20, 2003 8:44AM

Paul

You hit the nail on the head.It's never REALLY ever been done.Imagine being Brian Cornwall having the entire Belzberg collection gone through and sent to PCGS for cross grading.I happen to think it was done fairly.There were some upgrades as well as downgrades.
I plan to take my collection of about 100 small cents to ICCS for cross grading when it gets a little nicer weather wise.I will let you know how I make out.

Stewart

tradedollarnut · February 20, 2003 10:49AM

Cross grade? Is that like the Registry Grade concept?

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · February 20, 2003 11:31AM

Tradedollarnut - yes, it is. You send a PCGS or NGC (maybe others?) graded coin to ICCS. They return it to you, in the original PCGS or NGC holder, along with a sealed ICCS label noting the PCGS/NGC number, and the ICCS grade. If I can figure out how to scan one and post it, I'll do so.

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · February 20, 2003 11:53AM

Well, here goes ...

oreville · February 21, 2003 10:09AM

Stewart: Canadian collectors do not like PCGS slabbed coins and do not trust PCGS slabbed coins the way they trust ICCS.

Unfortunately I have seen first hand PCGS slabbed coin with a ICCS 2x2 consenting grade go for far less than the ICCS 2x2 graded holder alone.

I would be extremely hestitant to take my conservatively graded ICCS graded coins and cross them to PCGS.

A BIG mistake in my view.

Remember ICCS is to PCGS as PCGS is to NGC.

ICCS is the undisputed king of Canadian coin graders.

I have my Canadia coins in all different ways indeed including some of the PCGS slabs with the ICCS 2x2 attached.

What I WANT is for PCGS to do it THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!!!!!

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · February 21, 2003 11:14AM

Yes, there are some Canadian collectors that don't like PCGS slabs, but there are also very many that do - I happen to be one of them. There are also many collectors that don't like slabs at all.

And, the statement "ICCS is to PCGS as PCGS is to NGC" leaves out a few important details. PCGS and NGC use the same grading criteria, more or less. But, ICCS grades somewhat differently than the US companies. Differences at ICCS include technical grade, no impact of eye appeal, and somewhat looser standards for Red copper.

I do agree that ICCS is the undisputed king of Canadian coin graders. But, the flimsy holders, lack of a website, etc really detract from the company.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 21, 2003 12:12PM

Any Auction gossip?

oreville · February 21, 2003 12:58PM

PBRat: Sorry I did omit that PCGS is much tougher on the definition of full red copper than ICCS.

That is why I admit I own 2 of the PCGS MS-67 red 1871 PEI cents. One of them is the Norweb pedigree and did fall off my chair when a fellow ebayer told me it was being auctioned on ebay about four years ago. That Norweb cent in my opinion is not a full 67 and is certainly is not full red but has the most awesome eye appeal toning wise I have ever seen. The colors look better than the annual SI swimsuit issue.

My point has been if it is good enough for ICCS to agree to counter or confirm grade a PCGS slab then why isn't it good enough for PCGS to do the sameto a ICCS 2x2 ???
From a liability point of view it is a no lose proposition for PCGS.

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · February 22, 2003 10:45AM

The only reason I can think for PCGS not to cross grade (not crossover) ICCS coins is the flimsy holders. The ICCS holders are much easier to cart around, but do not do a good job of protecting the coin if it's dropped or hit. And ICCS has already had one incident where coins were replaced in the holders, maybe this would also disuade PCGS.

Sounds like you have some really nice coins, Oreville. Care to post scans of a few?

Auction gossip for Stewart ... haven't followed a lot of the auction, but it looks like some good deals for mid-grade uncirculated coins, and high prices for cameo coins.

Canadian Set Registry

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