Cranky and Bitter DEALERS Oh my!

maddox

I attended the Florida FUN show and I was amazed at how totally rude most of the dealers were. There is all this feedback being posted lately about how dealers get pissed off at buyers for doing this and that. Are we supposed to accept the fact that ALL dealers are gods and walk on water and will never try and screw you over for a few bucks, give me a break.

I've met more rude dealers than I have buyers!

Heres MY list of things DEALERS should and should not do.

Dealers, please use this as a learning tool.....

1) Because we are younger, don't treat us like we are inferior life forms wasting your time. There are a lot of younger collectors like myself who take this very SERIOUSLY.

2) Because we are younger, maybe we do, and I DO have the funds to buy coins from you, but opt not to because your rude and will always help a older person first (this happened too many times to count at the FUN Show). I even had people calling my "Young Man", I'm 38yo, but look much younger.

3) Price your coins in the case, (YOUR WEB SITES HAVE THE PRICE POSTED) not some code so that you can judge the person to see how much they will pay (some dealers price there coins and some do not) I have tested too many dealers at shows by sending a buddy over who is older and getting a price, then I walk over and check the price, 90% of the time I am always quoted a higher price, WHY? example 1882 CC DMPL PCGS 64, friend was quoted $275.00, I'm quoted $310.00, 10 minutes later.

4) If we ask to see a coin in the case, don't pick it out and fling it across the table, hand it to us like you would to a regular customer.

5) We stand in line, patiently, awaiting our turn to check out your coins, yet you carry on "Good ole Boy" conversations with a guy who has been there for an hour and yet you will not give us the time of day and you get tuded out when we ask to see the coin.

6) Don't get tuded out if we have a redbook or greysheet, there are way to many coins to memorize pricing, YOU HAVE ONE!

7) Don't waste my time with nonsense crap about the so called history of the coin and how you aquired the coin, or other nonsense about the coin you just sold for an incredibly low price. You dont want me wasting your time with needless bantering, goes both ways.

8) If we ask for a business card, how about handing one over without getting pissy, case in point, I only had a day and a half to do the FUN, two seperate dealers had a lot of inventory I was interested in, I asked if they had a web site, they said yes, once dealer was very easy going and nice to talk with, the other was insulted that I was not buying at the show, guess who is getting my business? Kinda a no brainer.

9) Just becasue we don't buy an item at the show does not mean we won't be future customers, have any of you ever heard of "Future customers" or ever grasped the concept that you may have coins in the future we may want?

10) Show us the respect we show you. If your getting a lot of rude customers, take a look at the common denominator, yourself.

Final thoughts. I treat everybody with respect at the shows and never waste a dealers time, so those of you who want to flame me with insults, go ahead, you are only proving my point.

I personally spend 1k to 3k a month either on ebay or at online coin shops which I have developed a relationship with, I've gotten some great deals from these online dealers, I can only wonder if I would have gotten the same deals in person?

LucyBop

I had great dealer experiences at Long Beach..... They were all kind to the Kitty! I had a dealer in Scottsdale Arizona stare over me as I was looking through his Franklins.... It did make me a little uneasy, but I spent lots of money there as he had GEMS and got cherry picked...

gsaguy

Maddox,

I had no idea you spent so much time at my table at FUN!

GSAGUY

truthteller

Maddox,

Unfortunately, it seems to be a right of passage to experience these things in the coin business. When I was younger, I went through most of what you have listed. It seems to be human nature. However, if there were a way to get coin dealers to go to school and get and degree on coin dealing, I would be the first to promote it. Since there is no uniform accredidation, every dealer does business his/her own way. So there is no uniformity, unlike engineering, accounting or architecture.

TRUTH

Twowood

I'm sure they're all nice to the chicks, but my limited experience is more in line with Maddox'. Give 'em hell!
Twowood

TomB

Excellent points have been raised in this thread. I don't believe I am guilty of any of them, however, I know that on the public side of the table some of these things have been done to me. I especially do not like being ignored or being told I can't afford a coin. One dealer at FUN had a beautiful coin I was very interested in and there was no one at his table so I stood there, invisible, while he BS'ed with a friend of his over a $50 deal he had previously completed. Three times he looked over at me, all of two feet away, and the third time I pointed to the coin I wanted to see. Finally, I left.

maddox

gsaguy, If you had a table at the show I might have spent some time there, i do remember one booth that was stacked with GSA and the guy was kinda easy going, Nah, must not have been you...

jbsteven

maybe it is just me but when I go to a show it seems like I am treated with respect. Most of the shows I have been to have been smaller shows so maybe that is the difference.

BTW I am 32 and have long hair but I dress fairly nice (maybe the dress has something to do with it). If anyone looks like a kid it is me.

I will attend Long Beach in late Feb. and am curious to see what the large show dealer mentality is.

now that I remember it seems like the only dealer I got the cold sholder/rudeness from was GSAGUY

Outhaul

I just wish I had an opportunity to attend one of these major shows.

Cheers,

Bob

gsaguy

Maddox,

The guy had a stack of GSA's? Was he bald headed? Did he have on very bright tie?....................then it wasn't I!

JB,

I remember you sitting there. You're the fellow just couldn't wait while I read the paper, ate my luch, trimmed my nails, and talked to the chicks. You're so impatient man!

GSAGUY

P.S. If you've never been to a Long Beach show, you'll enjoy it. And hey, I get to introduce to one of the most collector-friendly dealers known to man....David Weinstein!

gsaguy

Almost forgot JB....that was a nice dress you were wearing.

GSAGUY

Bear

At my ripe age, I guess the dealers will roll out the red carpet

and serve me with imported champaign.I was young once, but it was so long ago,

its hard to remember just how bad it was.

jbsteven

that dress I had on was new for the show, I bought it special!

Weinstein, ahhh I have seen posts about him. Maybe I will try him out with the dumb looking young hippie routine. that might be fun.

maddox

gsaguy
The guy got spun in twenty directions, just because I spilled a latte grande on his case, jeez. Everybody pulls the GSA's outa the box's and throws them away anyway, when they get slabbed....

maybe that explains his not taking my offer of $100.00 for the 79CC GSA....

kaleidoscopic

Well, I suppose both sides of the business have their good and bad. During business, I would say treat others as you would want to be treated. If you have a bad experience, make a mental note. Pass the word if need be. Kscope

kaleidoscopic

Mad, that kind of is a no no. Careful with food and drink. GSA boxes are now collectible with NGC putting bands on them. Kscoope

maddox

Hey Lucy

What's the car in background? We've got a 62 Olds Starfire, ground up restoration. Every make it to any of the car shows? Or are you too busy working the dealers at the coin shows

LucyBop

a 55 BelAir...... Yes I do make car shows....

Bulldog

Lucy Dear,

You look more like an IMPALA than a Bel Aire

Bulldog

KlectorKid

Arg, try being a teenager and going to a coin show. I asked to see a coin he said "do you have the money"... it was a $45 coin! Also a crooked old dealer wouldnt let me hold any of his coins, he didnt even pull them out for me just told me it was a blazer, it was like listening to an E-Bay auction when I was 2 feet away from the coin!

Catch22

I can say in my 20 some odd years of collecting, I've met more dealers that were lacking in people skills than I have that were professional.

With the increasing ability to bypass dealers and aquire coins via the net, ebay for example, perhaps the margins have decreased and require a high degree of specialization to turn a decent return. Almost all dealers are complaining about their ability to find decent product to sell. This is not surprising, we no longer have to accept half of Redbook value and listen to the comments about our coins being at least one grade lower than we think they are.

The single, biggest change in the hobby has been internet trading and the ability for the average guy to buy and sell within a more narrow spread. This should eventually have a very positive effect on coin values.

It used to be that you could expect to hold a coin for 10 years before realizing a return on collector grade material. This is no longer the case. You can buy close to retail and sell close to retail. For a dealer to make a decent return, he must aquire his inventory considerably less than retail. Why would anyone sell to a dealer at graysheet or less when they can easily market their goods at a targeted, eager buyer, more than willing to pay retail?

With the exception of those dealers that play in Laura Sperbers league, many dealers are having to change their way of dealing in coins. Quite a number of them are likely capitalizing on the boom in modern coins that can be bought from the mint and resold to the vast number of new collectors desiring the flash of a pretty coin. There is big money being spent on modern issues and the well hasn't been tapped dry, nor will it become dry in the near future I suspect.

How many of us that have been collecting for any significant amount of time would have ever imagined turning a profit of 1000% on a modern proof set in just a matter of a couple of years? I sure as heck didn't.

Strictly from a business perspective, if I were to attempt to become an active dealer, I would be hard pressed not to dive into the modern craze for a few years.

barney

I'm 2 for 2 at LB shows since movin' back to SoCal: sold at the first and traded for the monsta whoppa Morgan at the September show. Hepkitty, hope to see ya...maybe I'll add one of those colourful Frankies-I like the '55 too and am big at Karaokies! GSAGUY, I have an
'84-CC to show you (John Ruiz aka Strat saw and liked it at Anaheim). Don't know if I'll be in a buying mood-depends on how things flow in February.

I'm sorry about the Columbia crew and the state of affairs around the world, but life goes on...

Take care,
Barney

gsaguy

Barney,

I'm always in a buying mood...........especially when it comes to nice CC dollars. And if Strat liked it, it's got to be a nice one. I've showed him a few monsters and have usually gotten in return, "yea, that's kind of cute"!!!!!!!

GSAGUY

doops

<< <i>Arg, try being a teenager and going to a coin show. I asked to see a coin he said "do you have the money"... it was a $45 coin! Also a crooked old dealer wouldnt let me hold any of his coins, he didnt even pull them out for me just told me it was a blazer, it was like listening to an E-Bay auction when I was 2 feet away from the coin! >>


heh, this reminds me when steve o'day was helping greg roberts (spectrum intnl) back like 87,8 (they were young then) at this st louis show at a table next to mine after steve made some acquistions from us on some cameo dmpl dollars greg was buying up as he was intially getting his backup funding right (and i mean right) steve checks out dude next to me, an old fart from nyc (name like a fish) he was questioning steve's ability to buy 5-6g with a check on stuff he ok'd and set aside. greg strides over and asked what's the prob? jerkoff says he aint into no hot check scams,never heard of em,etc,etc, so greg pulled out about a 50-60g jed clampet size wad of huns and said what's the prob? guy says oh,ok no prob. greg shoved 2 heaps of slabs back to the inside dealer's side edge of of the table, a few fell off onto the floor then said a few choice words. they sat back down with sandy & i and spent a few more g. the best part is that night me,steve ryan and a daigo who's name slips me split the bill and hosted a hot blackjack gig in a penthouse that eve. guess who arrives hearing about it wanting in? yep,fish man. heh heh, cant get over it,it was a knee slapper for decades to come. he got slopped on about a dozen jack d shots and coca cola and we cleaned him for over 10g in crisp huns...it was awesome..NEVER doubt the ability of a youngster. many who started with little now have much and a very good memory.....

walkerman

Maddox, I can relate to every item in your tutorial. I have suffered every one of the indignities you list as a collecter for many years and even now as a dealer.Being 73 years old I can attest that age has nothing to do with it. Part of the problem is that there are several types of dealers set up at the major shows.Some come mainly to participate in major deals with other dealers and are not really interested in dealing with the public.These types have already done all the business they came for and are mostly still hanging around the bourse to socialize and perhaps get wind of another opportunity for a major score.They deal mostly with known players and are basically aloof to your complaints. There are others who come to the show mainly as buyers.These are the ones who are never at their table as they are running around the bourse floor like rabbits trying to beat everyone else (including you) to the best coins available.This is not a condemnation of this practice, merely a statement of facts.This can be an annoyance however when you see a coin in his case and either can't ever find him at his table or have to deal with an assistant who can't quote a buying price.In fairness,most now have walkie talkies and will return to the table if they are paged.(unless they are in the middle of a large deal).They would still like to sell enough to the public to at least pay their show expenses.There are still many of us who actually want to do a volume of business with the public both buying and selling. These are the retail dealers most of whom depend largely on sales to the public to make or break a show. Even though many of us deal in more expensive rarities or high grade common coins you will seldom find any of us treating the public with the indifference you describe.I have had the experience of selling coins in every price range to customers of all ages,all manner of dress,and all years of experience.Once a guy in t-shirt and blue jeans and a three day growth of beard asked to see a Morgan I had priced in excess of $5000.After showing it to him and discussing it a while he opened his tote bag and began counting out Ben Franklins.This has happened time and again and no dealer who has experienced this will ever think of snubbing any one who approaches his table.Even though I have been dealing for several years now I still experience the same things in your complaint from some of the dealer types I described.My advice to you is this.Forget about trying to reach people who actually have a different agenda than spending time trying to cultivate new customers and concentrate on the dealers who have what you are looking for and are happy to be of service.We are out there. dalias13@hotmail.com

LucyBop

walkerman, were you selling at the last show in Tacoma? You remind me of a wonderful gentleman that me and my partner had the privilage of meeting.... My buddy bought a Bridgeport commem still in its original box from you, if you are who I am thinking about...

walkerman

No Lucy, That wasn't me.

LucyBop

you sure reminded me of this sweet 70 year old dealer... I kept calling him a fine young man. I think he liked me!

cosmicdebris

Catch22 you said it , these guys need people skills. Maybe all dealers should be sent to CHarm School before they are allowed to deal with the public.

Morganluver

I will say from personal experience that GSAGuy and his lovely wife are the epitome of graciousness and class and that there are other dealers like that. There are also dealers like the ones described...nasty and rude. I try not to let those people affect my mood for the rest of the day or show. I just avoid them. I try not to let other people control my emotions, although sometimes that's difficult. I feel like I can get along with just about anybody because I want to. I've even given some well known and respected dealers(one in particular who posts to this board) a second and third "chance" to be nice and kind at three consecutive FUN shows only to be snubbed once again. This particular dealer on each occasion, didn't even want to take the time to look at what I had to sell(better date and grade DMPLs). I will say, however, that the partner of this dealer has always been very nice and willing to at least say something to me. So in this case, I will avoid this dealer always in the future because apparently I'm not in the same "league" and am made to feel inferior. I guess some people are like that. So my advice is to just avoid these kind of people because it's not worth it and thankfully there are other "kind" dealers like GSAGuy who treat you the way they would like to be treated. I feel better now.

TONEDDOLLARS

Maddox,

That was me at GSAGUYS table not him. Real good looking dude, correct

maddox

I should mention that I have come across several dealers that were incredibly helpful at the show, my post leaned towards the negative side, guess I'm still dealing with the fresh wounds that PCGS inflicted with the recent slabbing incident.

gsaguy, you got any 78cc gsa's. I've got an extra 50 bucks in my budget this week
I might even go up to a $100 for a 79CC gsa......snicker......

"I hoard coins, thats what I do, thats my nature"

Dog97

The problem stems from the fact that most coin people were highly despised, unloved, picked on & abused geeks & nerds in their school days and now that they are older they still are maladjusted & still suffer from inferiority complexes. In essence they are old, fat bald, highly despised & unloved geeks & nerds even now.
Show me an honest, popular & pleasant dealer and I'll show you a guy that was popular in school, probably on the football team, and went on to be a working stiff and accidentally fell into being a dealer. These are the real people.

gsaguy

Morganluver.........flattery will get you everywhere!!!

Maddox....sure, loaded with 78-CC's...and 79-CC's for that matter. I'll put you on a payment plan.

Toneddollars.............sit down and be quiet..........you're still in time out!

GSAGUY

BigE

OK Dog97, so which category do you fall into?-------------BigE

maddox

You just summed up what I have sences about SOME dealers all along, you can spot the real, honest, down to earth ones and you can almost sense that they adapted well to normal life experiences instead of mutating into living proof that some forms of birth control are not 100% effective. I'm not bitter, just really irritated at arrogant dealers..

Morganluver

Oops. I would be remiss if I didn't mention GSAGuy's tall dark and handsome assistant, TONEDDOLLARS. He too was amiable, helpful pleasant and above all honest. In my haste I left an envelope full of C-notes that had fallen between two of their display cases. He could have easily said that he never saw an envelope and just pocketed the money, but because I knew his name and where he lived...just kidding. He made sure that the money was returned to me. That speaks volumes about his integrity and honesty. I want to publicly thank you again for your Golden Rule approach to life. I wish all were like you guys.


Sincerely, Richard

gsaguy

Morganluver,

That scoundrel didn't even tell me about that envelope full of C notes. Since the table was mine, you'd have thought I'd have be entitled to at least a split of the booty.

GSAGUY

baccaruda

Welcome to the boards Maddox and i agree with you 100%. I've seen the attitude myself that if you're not there to drop $10,000 on a coin giving them a huge profit then you're not worth their time. thankfully the laws of economics will eventually force these types of dealers out of business. The old-world, stodgy, elitist dealers should have to post a sign at shows saying "don't bother me unless you're a $10,000 whale".

i would suggest confining your business to the dealers/sellers who frequent these boards. Most of them are very helpful and considerate to everyone. Many post lengthy threads offering nothing but their own experience and knowledge - asking nothing in return.

Morganluver

GSAGUY

I thought you knew about it especially when I heard you say that you wanted to find the most expensive restaurant in Orlando and didn't even invite me LOL.

EVillageProwler

There's a lot that Maddox said that isn't specific to the coin biz. I've always had a hard time finding clothes that were my size, and the generic stores just didn't have my size. Plus, I hate shopping with a passion; when I do, I like it to be quick and painless.

Thus, I tend to go to some of the higher-end stores that supposedly have higher-end customer service. But, I look very young and I don't go dressed very well. (I'm there to buy clothes, not to walk the runway!) Many of the people there simply wouldn't give me the time of day, like I can't possibly be the type of client that has money. (I'm a senior VP on Wall St.)

This also happens to me at other types of stores: watches, jewelry, shoes, etc.

It's really quite annoying how dismissive and condescending some retailers can be. Nowadays, when I find a store without this stupid mindset, I'll patronize it faithfully. Or, I'll simply order it online or via the telephone.

EVP