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$63,000 price jump for a common date Indian cent?

shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
FUN saw two PCGS 1899 Indian cents change hands, an MS68RD in the Heritage Sale and an MS67RD on the bourse floor. The former got audible gasps and tons of publicity, the latter was pretty much your average coin sale. It's not fair to judge them only by these images since the 67RD was captured much better by its new owner:

PCGS 68RD
image

PCGS 67RD
image

Having seen both I'm still shaking my head over the 1100% price jump between the two, even considering the "finest known bronze Indian cent" kicker that comes with the 68RD. Technically it's a cut above, with a strike you rarely see on proofs: sharp edges on the lettering and especially the date, full detail on even the veins of the olive leaves, and stunning depth overall. But $69,000 for an 1899, one of the most common of the common dates? When I saw the 67RD I was equally impressed and thought it was richer in frost and tone and more consistent in color.

Both are special coins I'd be thrilled to own. But I think the power of plastic went a little berserko in Orlando.
Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org

Comments

  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
    Shylock

    You're wrong.It was I that went a little beserk on the auction floor and was saved by the phone bidder.
    It was I that played the statue of Liberty and lost to an internet bidder.

    Stewart
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Intersting...my very first, immediate thought when seeing the 68R was that the strike was a bit weak - check the diamonds, for instance, on the pics you've posted. I'm not being critical of the 68 - it's a great coin - just wanted to share my impression (often the first, gut feeling is the best impression). Gotta admit, that was one fine piece of plastic that went along with a great coin!image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I never saw Pittman in action personally, intimidating bidders but, I bet he wasn't grinning ear-to-ear like you wereimageimageimage Too bad the guy on the phone couldn't see you.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
    Lakesamman

    You have to admit the toning and the originality of the ms 68 was unique.The strike in the photo is deceptive as the "diamonds" were all there.
    The 1899 in ms 68 could be the BEST indian cent I ever saw.Hey but its only money,a commodity that is abundant these days
    I feel you should let everyone know that it was you who lucked out buying the 1899 in ms 67 red for 7 k.I also know that everyone you showed it to offered you a profit.Congratulations

    Stewart
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,701 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The reverse of the 68 is a cut above spectacular, and the obverse isn't bad.
    The 67 is a nice solid superb gem!
    Tempus fugit.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stewart:

    I will admit all day long that it was a spectacular coin.....would be proud to own it, if the price were reasonable. Don't know if we'll ever again see a MS 68R?? By the way, there is one coin finer....a 68R CAMEO.....I'll sell it to you for the same price as the MS 68R, if interested.image

    By the way, the guy was asking $6400 and I ended up paying 6k.
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ahhh - nothing better than a successful chisel on a rip! image
    Early Dollar Set
  • jomjom Posts: 3,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The one on top is prettier because of the color but I'm fairly certain I wouldn't pay a huge premium just because it's a pop 1 or whatever. I'd pay "a" premuim because I liked it a bit more but not 1 billion percent. image

    jom
  • PushkinPushkin Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭
    Lakes,



    << <i>By the way, the guy was asking $6400 and I ended up paying 6k. >>



    I'll give you $7K for it right now, sight unseen. Done deal?image
  • cosmicdebriscosmicdebris Posts: 12,332 ✭✭✭
    Wow! Stewart that was you?
    Bill

    image

    09/07/2006
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Hey Pushkin - Don't be cheap !

    Lakesamman - I will GLADLY pay you $9,500

    And I'm still standing

    Stewart
  • cosmicdebriscosmicdebris Posts: 12,332 ✭✭✭
    Isn't your arm getting tired?
    Bill

    image

    09/07/2006
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Markets getting softer - I was offered 10K at the show!!image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,982 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "$63,000 price jump for a common date Indian cent?"

    I would have expected nothing less since we are dealing with a "classic" (common) coin. The modern coin prices are not that crazy - only up to $40,000 price jumps between grades
    image

    All kidding aside, to own (perhaps) the finest MS Indian cent in existence isn't cheap, just like a "flawless diamond" with one flaw just doesn't "cut it". If the phone bidder was financially secure and desired the nicest Indian cent money could buy - his only obstacle was Stewart, which he finally overcame at a $63,000 price jump between grades image

    Wondercoin.
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Well one fox got his grape.image Another fox got a really nice coin too. I didn't get to see the 68 because I made my travel reservations before the night of the Heritage sell was announced. image Which by the way ticked me off, why would they have the auction the night before the show was scheduled to open? If you are gonna do that sell some of the less popular series than copper that night. What series would that be? Any series BUT copper!!image

    Anyway Tim thanks for showing me that coin.
  • PushkinPushkin Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Markets getting softer - I was offered 10K at the show!! >>



    Yes, but remember, we're talking "sight unseen" deals here. We could end up like Park Avenue Numismatics.image

    Seriously, post a picture, I'm sure those of us who haven't seen it would love to. image
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
    Mitch -

    You are comparing a 1963 Lincoln to an 1899 Indian Cent

    1) The 1963 Lincoln was not properly graded
    2) The true value of the 1963 coin in the auctioin was closer to .40
    3A proof 69 1963 cent is $250 vs $39,000 in pr 70

    The Indian Cent

    1) The 1899 was properly graded
    2) The true value of the 1899 Indian cent has been determined.I would definitely bid on the same coin if there is a next time
    3) A mint state 67 1899 is worth 10 K

    Do you really believe there is a comparison between a classic condition rarety and a modern condition rarety ?

    Tim - I'll pay you 11 k .... done deal ?

    Stewart
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Here's ONLY a $20,000 version of a 68Proof.

    image
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,982 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Do you really believe there is a comparison between a classic condition rarety and a modern condition rarety ?"

    Stewart: Maybe you missed the part of my post "All kidding aside"
    image

    Incidently, there are comparisions- but not the 1963 Proof cent!!

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • MacCoinMacCoin Posts: 2,544 ✭✭
    Hi Paul. They're both beautiful I like the 67 better the color is killer plastic does make the prices go crazy
    image


    I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.

    Always looking for nice type coins

    my local dealer
  • shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    I learned two things about Stewart at this sale. When he stands up with his bid card it's time to turn the page to the next lot (something the phone bidder had the luxery of not seeing), and never believe anything he says about a coin before the sale. The tone of his Dallas preview of the 68RD made think it was an afterthought.

    Lakesammman - your coin may actually get the nod as far the diamonds go, though I think the Heritage image of the 68 is blurred by the slab there. The strike of the date was my first impression of the Gorrell coin, along with the unique look. Not sure I liked those tiny splashes of rose it had in the obverse fields.
    Paul <> altered surfaces <> CoinGallery.org
  • toothpullertoothpuller Posts: 600 ✭
    Anyone know the identity of the deep-pocketed buyer of the 68RD or will it just disappear for a while like the 33 Saint?
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    toothpuller,

    This is purely speculation (or, more precisely, a bit of tongue in cheek) on my part but... I think Stewart bought the coin. I have always suspected him of having multiple personalities and my guess is that he outbid himself, with his phone bid topping his floor bid. imageimage
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sure would like to know - several coins went to the "phone" that night.

    Stewart - I have a NGC67R in 1899 (below) that I'll sell you for $9500 - it's almost as niceimage If you can't cross it in the next 10 years or so, I'll give you a refund.

    image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stewart bid $11K image

    $11,500 Done Deal!!!! image
    Early Dollar Set

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