1908 $20 No Moto Saint G over Graded?

MrKelso · January 25, 2003 2:50AM

Whats your Opinion on this Over graded Gold Piece. I will reveal the Grade later tonight. What Grade should this Coin Have?

boiler78 · January 25, 2003 3:06AM

Assuming there is no highpoint wear that is hard to see in the scan I would guess it is in a 64 holder. I think both NGC and PCGS are pretty loose on Saints.

darktone · January 25, 2003 3:07AM

My guess is it's a Well Fargo coin graded MS65 but deserves a grade of MS63. mike

dorkkarl · January 25, 2003 3:07AM

ms-64

Outhaul · January 25, 2003 3:10AM

Well, looks AU-55/58 to me...and in an NTC holder to boot! Well...am I right?

Cheers,

Bob

MacCoin · January 25, 2003 3:14AM

I have never owned a st. I even afraid to ask my dealer to take one out of the case. mostly because is next words will be "we have a great layaway plan" and I'm a very weak man.

Outhaul · January 25, 2003 3:15AM

LMAO MacCoin!

eagle7 · January 25, 2003 3:20AM

Unless it has wear on the high points its a typical grungy ms62 in a PCGS or NGC holder. In an ntc holder it is maybe 64 or 65.

MrKelso · January 25, 2003 3:36AM

Some one asked me what holder it is in, It is in an NGC holder.

Outhaul · January 25, 2003 3:37AM

Dang...the green tint threw me off. Still...it's probably an AU coin in an UNC holder.

nwcs · January 25, 2003 4:12AM

63, it looks so similar to other 63s I've seen, including my own.

Loki · January 25, 2003 4:18AM

<< <i>My guess is it's a Well Fargo coin graded MS65 but deserves a grade of MS63. mike

>>

Do you know something that I don't know Mike? I have one of these on order.

banknote1 · January 25, 2003 4:47AM

My guess would be either MS63 or MS64. It is hard to grade a coin from a photo anyway...

eagle7 · January 25, 2003 4:58AM

I like this one better. Its in a PCGS 65 holder. Its a 1926. I got it from Laura about 1998. It has a small copper sunburst in the center which rapidly fades to smooth satin skin. Has one small mark on the left main focal area on the obverse. Very nice Saint.

littlewicher · January 25, 2003 5:04AM

Either it has a weak strike or has wear on the obverse. So I'm going to say AU-58.

twodollardon · January 25, 2003 5:16AM

I agree with OUTHAUL ! AU58- MS60 at best

DON

MS64

cosmicdebris · January 25, 2003 5:18AM

The reverse looks MS64/65 Obverse looks like some rub on the chest and stomach and a gauge on the knee with a very flat nose and should be AU58 but I bet it is in a MS64 holder.

MrKelso · January 25, 2003 5:33AM

<< <i>I like this one better. Its in a PCGS 65 holder. Its a 1926. I got it from Laura about 1998. It has a small copper sunburst in the center which rapidly fades to smooth satin skin. Has one small mark on the left main focal area on the obverse. Very nice Saint. >>

Nice coin with Motto eagle7, I have several very strong strikes myself. I will have to pull them out and Photo them next.

Grade posted tonight.

eagle7 · January 25, 2003 5:39AM

The name is Mark, better known as TACO. Thanks for the compliment. I love Saints. Cant afford a bunch of nice ones but I love them any way.

SageRad · January 25, 2003 5:54AM

61

I think that SGs are much more difficult to grade than $20 Libs and, perhaps, for that reason, tend to be overgraded. I find it treacherous to buy SGs and for that reason, generally do not. Just my opinion.

coinrookie · January 25, 2003 6:52AM

62

nwcs · January 25, 2003 7:31AM

Remember, there is always a small amount of friction allowed because gold is softer. And Saints are well known to have roll friction on the high points. It can be misleading to think of the roll friction as circulation wear. That's why I'm sticking with 63.

MrKelso · January 25, 2003 9:39AM

Ok here it is. I for one thought this was over graded by 2 or 3 points. You folks are Good!! That why i love this place so Much.

MOrganMuncher · January 25, 2003 9:48AM

the back of this coin is beautiful.

MrKelso · January 25, 2003 10:02AM

Yep the rev is nice. I love them big eagles.

MrKelso · January 25, 2003 2:05PM

Hmmmm Short ray version?

michael · January 25, 2003 2:26PM

these common datre generic saintas that trade just like stocks are bought and sold sight unseen all day long and this is the problem witrh them currently the market k=just goes by the holder and grade i think the services are all over the board on common date generic saints as they are called they are common and like i said because they trade sight unseen huge trades everyday they are just not respected coins as far as graduing them goes it doesnot matter currently in the market and the last 15 years since they started alabbing these coins waht they look like it all goes by the holder now yes if you see some at shows if you pick it will be more but you are going to pick thre nicer coins! usually the 65 coins common dates are better but not by a long shot and take a date loike the 1908 no motto saint they are usually poorly struckand look flat as a pancake looks oike a stream roller wnet over the coins after ythey were struck and also the lustre on many is dull or thick skinned coins from being is a dirty bag and tossed around improperly stored before slabbing they get sent in and no one dips them!

the best date for me to come nice is the 1928 you can get thwm with blazing dipped or course lustre and it is an uncommon thing to gewt a monster lustre coin with no spots stains and a nice high end eye appealling ms64

from waht i have seen in my little sphere of influence and they are so bad most of them that if you tell someone to pick nice pq coins for you you get them and if you are not used to seeing any saints you think the person picking sent you real garbage and in reality they did not as these are pq so you can imagine waht the ugly ones look like!

i have seen so many that have never been in circulation but with so much rub on the high points and all marked up and in 64 holders or are nice looking and some to no to lots of rub and are stained or copper spotted which was loved in the 1960's as it proved the coin was original and not dipped.......lol or are just plain butt ugly with ugly toning and just dull..................

i bet many 63 coins are not that great either and many dogs out there also but they still trade sight unseen

i guess i am finding out that even a common datre saint even a 1927 1924 in ms 64 but a really nice high end 64 with absolutely no rub and no spots or stains and monster lustre is a really scarce coin and beautiful i think in the up and comimng years the top nice looking 5% will be more valuable and collected as a nice type coin representative example

and if you think this saint as pictured in this thread as 64 is bad let me tell you there are thousands out there that make trhis coin look like a ms 67!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sincerely kmichael

michael · January 25, 2003 2:30PM

and also that big bag mark on the knee thast is another common occurance on these coins sometimes huge hits on the knee or especuially so on the reverse on the upper tops of the eagles wings

also these 64 supposoedly near gem saints if you tilt the coin in the right you see major black rub roll friction on the knees and the wings on the reverse it looks terrible i mean a barber dime like that would get bagged or even au 58............lool but these sainyts get 64!!

i mean for me it would be a rarity to see a 64 saint with no roll friction rub along with monster lusttre and no spots and stains.....lol and no large hits

the hits are always in the suns rays below the eagle i do not know why but they are always there lots concentrated

now supposedly on 65 coins there sohuld be none of this roll friction but i see my share of flat knees!

sincerely michael

this thread is great and a goo ezample of a 64 coin and overall surpirsingly this coin is auctally one of the nicer 64 coins i have seen as hard as it is to believe!

darktone · January 25, 2003 10:17PM

Loki, I have seen many of these coins overgraded but all of them I have seen have a really nice color and luster. Post a picture when you get it. Here's a picture of my
Wells Fargo . mike

cosmicdebris · January 25, 2003 10:33PM

Here is another coin that was in an NGC MS64 holder ( It is now in a PCGS MS64 Holder ) Does it look the same as MR Kelso coin?

MrKelso · January 26, 2003 12:39AM

cosmicdebris
Ruler Of Britannia

Your Coin Looks much better and that is my point. I pulled out 14 of these from the Bank Box recently, All graded by NGC except for one that is still raw. And Half of them seem over graded to me. I purchased these in a Gold and Silver deal. I believe i Paid approx $350 each for them and a little more for the raw one that i have packaged up to send in tomorrow. The one i showed here was not part of the deal, it came from a Dealer in Texas. It seems to me that someone was pumping these things out at a high rate of speed at some point and just gave an averaged grade if that is possible. At any rate they are preserved the way they are for ever as long as i own them, I would not want to look a gift horse in the mouth.

cosmicdebris · January 26, 2003 3:42AM

Just reinforcing your point.

Loki · January 26, 2003 6:58AM

Mike, Nice one! OK I will post a pic when I receive it. Do you think yours is overgraded?

coinkat · January 26, 2003 8:40AM

For me its alittle hard to tell because of the scan/photo... I can't tell how distracting some of the marks may be...with that disclaimer...MS63 with a shot at 64

1908 $20 No Moto Saint G over Graded?

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