Here's an example of snipers making a seller happy.

Russ · January 18, 2003 9:25AM

This auction was at $311.00 with about six minutes to go. Look at the action toward the end!

Russ, NCNE

LucyBop · January 18, 2003 9:26AM

Wow!

ClarkOfKent · January 18, 2003 9:28AM

HOLY MOLY!!!! That was a bloodbath! And alot of different bidders on that one.

Russ · January 18, 2003 9:33AM

Yeah, I tried to lay in a lame $525 snipe, but got the "problem with your bid" message. I'd have crapped a Buick sized load if I'd have got it at that.

Russ, NCNE

benloe · January 18, 2003 9:43AM

Ending price was still very reasonable.

baccaruda · January 18, 2003 9:56AM

that's the good thing about starting your bidding low - lots of people put it on there watchlist and wait for the last second then get caught up in the frenzy.

i was sniping a set of 5 2002 proof sets where the bidding was about $40 with 10 minutes to go. it went to $91 at the last sec with maybe 6-7 snipers hitting it. hell you could almost get em individually for less than that price.

Morganluver · January 18, 2003 10:02AM

Wow! It doubled in price in the last 6 seconds!

NumisEd · January 18, 2003 10:04AM

ClarkOfKent · January 18, 2003 10:07AM

<< >>

Now, THAT I agree with!

CarlWohlforth · January 18, 2003 10:12AM

That is less than $200 per PR 70 DCAM. That sounds like a bargain. Don't those halves go for $450?

NumisEd · January 18, 2003 10:21AM

Thanks ClarkOfKent. I just couldn't get any words out because of the shock of someone paying close to $1000 for a proof set that one could buy at the smallest of coin shows for $15.

Merc · January 18, 2003 10:35AM

oh my, that is an insane price. I had no idea that people would pay that much for a PF70 set.

Here is another that got some high bids at the end.

1881 DMPL

Russ · January 18, 2003 10:47AM

<< Don't those halves go for $450? >>

Carl,

Current market for the Kennedy is $350 to $375. The '91-S is one that has a pretty strong pop in 70DCAM. Modern basher's snide comments aside, if the buyer chooses to do so, they can likely flip the set for a pretty hefty profit.

Russ, NCNE

itsnotjustme · January 18, 2003 10:56AM

That's what struck me... less than $200 per coin average... Can you get a PR70DCAM anything for less then $200? Could PCGS' updated chance of a 70DCAM have driven these prices down?

Russ · January 18, 2003 11:01AM

Brian,

I think the seller made a strategic error by listing the set as a group, and would have done much better listing them individually.

Russ, NCNE

NumisEd · January 18, 2003 11:01AM

I'd have crapped a Buick sized load

Thanks for the lovely visual.

dwood · January 18, 2003 11:07AM

An annoying bi-product of the inate ability to eat, huh?

Russ · January 18, 2003 11:09AM

<< Thanks for the lovely visual. >>

You're very welcome.

Russ, NCNE

nwcs · January 18, 2003 11:11AM

So... how long till it's at auction? And what do you think its price will be?

cosmicdebris · January 18, 2003 8:57PM

Seller would have made more money selling them separatly

Twowood · January 18, 2003 9:08PM

Looks like it's worth every nickle of it. . Twowood

IrishMike · January 18, 2003 9:16PM

<< Thanks ClarkOfKent. I just couldn't get any words out because of the shock of someone paying close to $1000 for a proof set that one could buy at the smallest of coin shows for $15. >>

Obviuously you have commented on this sale with no idea of what the current market is for plastic.

The seller was a fool for selling this set intact, as others have pointed out. The half and quarter alone in a PCGS PF70 would garner this price. Ed I doubt if anyone really cares if you would only pay $15 for this set. The reality is that it sold for more than you would pay and less than what it would have sold broken up.

BTW if you find a PF70 DCAM PCGS set in any year for $15, I will gladly double your money.

NumisEd · January 19, 2003 3:00AM

IrishMike, top-of-da-mornin' ta ya! I am being very serious regarding a price of $15. Actually, I just checked by bid sheet and the 1991-S proof set is going for about $20-$25. I don't collect moderns, but I do have a small accumulation of proof and mint sets. Mostly from relatives who do not like me and buy me coin related Christmas and birthday gifts. My one or two relatives who like me, at least a little bit, buy me coins that were minted in the early 1800's or earlier.

To everyone, please believe that I am not trying to be a smart a$$, but I am examining my 1979 proof set with a 30X scope and each coin is absolutely flawless. It's almost as if they were struck on specially prepared planchets from specially prepared dies and then sealed in plastic immediately after being struck. Okay, now that was a bit sarcastic. Really though, will someone PLEASE explain to me what I am missing with moderns? Each coin in all of my proof sets look DCAM and the fields are deeply mirrored. There are no contact marks or flaws of any sort. WHAT am I missing? Is it possible that I am so set in my ways of grading early coins (1700's - 1800's) that I subconsciously apply those standards to moderns. I do want to learn more about the grading of modern coins.

Regarding the price of $900 for the 91-S proof set on ebay, I just can't accept it. Granted, the seller spent at least $100 getting the coins slabbed, and the set is worth about $20, but I keep coming up with $120 when I punch those numbers into my K-mart calculator.

HELP!!

IrishMike · January 19, 2003 3:31AM

Ed-I was chuckling when I posted my comments. If is says PCGS PFDCAM on the plastic, the prices are boundless due to registry demand. NO one will care what you or I think, witness the 63-s proof lincoln that sold at auction in FUN.

NumisEd · January 19, 2003 3:36AM

So, then am I correct to say that my 91-S proof set really IS PF-70 DCAM? If I get it slabbed by PCGS will it really be worth $800? I am getting kind of excited. I have never slabbed a coin, but I just may have to do so if it's really that easy. Seriously, what's the lowest grade that a coin will grade coming out of a proof set? PF-67? 68?? Seriously.

Merc · January 19, 2003 4:03AM

NumisEd, you are right. Most coins out of new proof sets will be high grade. Scott travers warns about buying high grade modern proofs. I had a 1990 proof set with me I just looked at. None are PF70's but should grade PF68 with 1 PF69. I guess there is very high demand for that PF70.

NumisEd · January 19, 2003 4:07AM

Merc, what's the difference between a PF-68 and a PF-70 Roosevelt? Is it a break in luster? Haze on surface? My coins look stunning. In fact, I thought about breaking out a set or two just so I could get a better look. The plastic on the proof set has so many scratches and what not that it's hard to see the coins.

CarlWohlforth · January 19, 2003 4:16AM

NumisEd -- don't get too excited. Most modern proofs won't go PR 70 DCAM for one reason or another. A tiny tick that takes an expert and a 5X loupe to see will disqualify it. If I understand what luster is there shouldn't be any luster on a deep cameo coin, the fields need to be perfect mirrors, no cartwheel effect as all. The cameo contrast must also be perfect, a break there should disqualify the coin as a 70. There is no way to be sure you have a 70 if you are looking at the coin in a scratched plastic holder.

NumisEd · January 19, 2003 4:24AM

Sounds like grading modern proofs is like picking fly poop out of a bowl of pepper.

It only seems logical to me that a grader at any grading service, PCGS included, would not be able to grade the same modern proof with 100% consistency, if the coin were submitted 10 times within a 1 month period. In other words, he/she/it(acg), may grade the proof as PF-69 one time and then PF-70 the next time. Actually, now that I think about it, ACG is the industry's most consistent grader of modern proofs; everything is PF-70 DCAM.

Now, here's the troubling part of this issue: the difference in price of a PF-69 and a PF-70 coin is probably substantial, based on the ebay auction that was the basis of this thread. Doesn't that scare anyone? The people who collect modern proofs should be the most concerned of all.

Again, I implore you to help me understand this modern coin thing.

ClausUrch · January 19, 2003 4:33AM

NumisEd:

Please stop trolling posts you have no interest in. No one wants to hear your dribble concerning your view of modern coinage. How many of us troll your posts asking you stupid questions such as, "Why are your ugly, dull looking old cruddy coins worth so much money? I can't tell the diffence between a VG and VF...could you please enlighten me."
Here is a new icon for you to upload next upload day...

Russ · January 19, 2003 4:37AM

NumisEd,

If your proof sets are so perfect you should submit them and make yourself some obscene money off all these idiots you like to denigrate. Until you do, you're just flapping your gums.

Russ, NCNE

NumisEd · January 19, 2003 4:42AM

Listen here Schultz and Russ, you are both way out of line. My posts to this thread were sincere and an honest request for people knowledgable in moderns to impart their knowledge of how to grade such coins. Why are you attacking me?

JLW · January 19, 2003 6:14AM

<< Listen here Schultz and Russ, you are both way out of line. My posts to this thread were sincere and an honest request for people knowledgable in moderns to impart their knowledge of how to grade such coins. Why are you attacking me? >>

Attitudes are contagious, in other words, what you sow so shall you reap.
Joe

theRiddler · January 19, 2003 6:19AM

"NumisEd, NumisEd, your supposed knowledge impresses none in this thread,
Can you admit, that you are in over your head?"

theRiddler

Wingsrule · January 19, 2003 7:20AM

If the seller would have listed the grades correctly, i.e. PR70 not PF70, I would have had a few bids in there myself. Slipped past the radar.

NumisEd · January 19, 2003 8:53AM

"NumisEd, NumisEd, your supposed knowledge impresses none in this thread,

Russ, please read my posts to this thread. I clearly ADMIT that I have no knowledge of grading modern coins, nor did I say anything remotely deragatory to anyone. I collect coins from the early US mint. I also own some modern coins and want to learn more about them. I learned a bit from Merc, Carl and IrishMike and it was an informative thread until you and Colonel Klink Von Urch attacked me for no reason.

Russ · January 19, 2003 8:57AM

Huh?

Russ, NCNE

presleyh · January 19, 2003 9:54AM

I think numised really has no idea of how difficult it is to get a pr70 dcam from pcgs. While there are literally millions of modern proof coins and most are very nice, there is a segment of the population that will pay PREMIUM prices for pr70 dcam. Numised please take a few moments to look at the pcgs pop reports and you will see that the 70 designation is very rare. Will these pop numbers hold for the next twenty years? If they do this set of 70's will become priceless.

NumisEd · January 19, 2003 10:03AM

presleyh, you are correct; I don't know how difficult it is to get a Proof-70 designation from PCGS or anyone else. Darn, that's what I am trying to ask here, but nobody will answer me. Carl is the only person who has given me a bit of information regarding this when he said that "a tiny tick viewed under 5X magnification would disqualify a coin". That was some useful information, but it's just hard for an old copper guy like me to believe that! It really sounds like this high-end grading thing is REALLY difficult to do. I do want more information. Presleyh, sounds like you have some information that you could provide to me????? Can you tell the difference between a Proof-70 coin and a Proof-69 coin???

LucyBop · January 19, 2003 10:08AM

<< Can you tell the difference between a Proof-70 coin and a Proof-69 coin??? >>

Maybe this is a good question to post in the Q&A forum....

NumisEd · January 19, 2003 10:11AM

Wanna hear something funny??? I never knew there was a Q&A forum. This is the only forum that I have ever visited!! Thanks for the suggestion....I will post my question in that forum. If anyone wants to share his or her opinions here, that would be helpful too. Ed

CarlWohlforth · January 19, 2003 10:21AM

To me a PR 69 DCAM is a perfect coin to an expert's naked eye. Now to go PR 70 take it out of its holder and examine for the most finicky detail with a 5X loupe. The strike must be perfect, the planchet must be perfectly prepared and perfectly polished to a super deep mirror finish, the frost must be very thick and perfectly even on all devices and lettering. There can be no haze, no microscopic milk or carbon spots nothing.

I have had 5 or 6 PR 70 DCAM Jeffersons that had obvious flaws to the naked eye. I sent them to PCGS and they sent me money. I sold a few that seemed perfect to me and kept two. I expect that PCGS must take extra time to grade a 70 or more coins will get returned.

presleyh · January 19, 2003 10:22AM

The best advice I can give is to learn before you burn. I've burned several times on here, so my skin is thickening up a bit. I joined pcgs just so I could submit my own coins since there are no real pcgs dealers around my neck of the woods. I don't think I ever expected to get any pr70s when I submitted coins and I never have. If and when a 70 comes to anyone on this board you WILL hear about it. I can't tell the difference between a pr68dcam and a pr69 or 70 for that matter. I have "made" a dozen or so 69dcams and just missed on a dozen more. The difference between a pr68 dcam and a pr69 dcam in modern coins is often a dollar factor of two to three X. If you are building a registry set of moderns shoot for all pr69dcams. pr70dcams are non existant in many coins. pr68dcams are everywhere.
Russ is probably the most vocal of the modern proof submitters on this board right now, and by far more experienced than me. He sounds gruff at times but after a while you will get to know he's really not a bad apple after all. His photo albums of modern proofs are quite extensive and a good place to learn about these coins.

NumisEd · January 19, 2003 10:46AM

Thanks presleyh and Carl. That is GREAT information. I am starting to see the light. I wish that I could meet some of the modern coin guys at a show to discuss the fine details. Maybe one day soon! I ordered a video from the ANA about grading modern coins, but I have not yet popped it into my 20 year old VCR yet. That may be a good place to start. The main thing that I learned from this thread is that it is NOT easy to grade high end modern coins (or any coin for that matter). So, I am not feeling too inferior about my grading abilities. For a minute, I thought that I was either losing my eyesight or just incapable of seeing the difference between 68 and 70. Thanks again.

Here's an example of snipers making a seller happy.

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