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An Expensive Lesson /Close-up's added.

MrLeeMrLee Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭
BEFOREimageAFTERimage

This was an expensive lesson but one I felt I should share. This was purchased on eBay before I started reading the forums here and learned of the deception that is ACG. As many other uninformed collectors have done, I paid far more than I should have.

I wanted to find out what the true grade would be so I had it sent to NGC by Strat. While this '82 is a fine looking Morgan, it is hardly worth the amount paid.

As long as you purchase anything encapsulated by ACG, they will remain in business deceiving new collectors. Do the hobby a service and............Do Not buy ACG.

Comments

  • Actually I think you were lucky. It was not cleaned and did not end up in a little plastic bag.
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Clackamas, it could have been worse so the glass is half full. Good of you to have the guts to post your mistake.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • MrLeeMrLee Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Actually I think you were lucky. It was not cleaned and did not end up in a little plastic bag. >>

    I do feel fortunate about that. And it is (I believe) a vam 1C but only a R-3.
  • FrattLawFrattLaw Posts: 3,290 ✭✭
    Well, that sucks, but I concur, count your lucky stars. And if its such a terrible memory, I'd be happy to trade a couple of BU Roosies for it. image So you can forgot this whole incident.

    Michael
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭✭✭
    thanks for sharing,MrLee...


    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • MrLeeMrLee Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭


    << <i>And if its such a terrible memory, I'd be happy to trade a couple of BU Roosies for it. >>

    Hmmmm. I'll take your kind offer under consideration.
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146
    Or might do the multiple submission deal and may get it in a top holder with atleast a 65 if its really as clean as it looks.
    Ditto Clackamas.
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    _image
    ACG
  • northcoinnorthcoin Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you learn whether PCGS would even add the PL designation. If they do now, I think it has only been in the past few years. Anyway, most of the dealers who have offered me material in ACG slabs generally discount it by two grade levels for pricing purposes so I guess what you found out is consistent with the experience of others. It also might be educational to take the coin to some shows or a coin club and mask off the grade and see what others would grade it at. From the pictures my guess is that PCGS was being a little stingy. It looks nicer than the grade you got. Another suggestion, crack it and send it to ANACS. ANACS seems to net grade up for coins with nice eye appeal which I assume your coin would have if it is in fact proof like.
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MrLee,

    The obverse of that coin sure looks alot better than a 64. You may have been robbed. Imo

    Paul
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146
    I just noticed NGC screwed up your coin too.IT SHRANK!!!!Send it back to ACG so they can blow it back up.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>From the pictures my guess is that PCGS was being a little stingy. >>



    Not only that, they decided to change their holder and put NGC on it.

    Russ, NCNE
  • PhillyJoePhillyJoe Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭
    Not a total loss. You rescued a Morgan from slab-hell and it now resides in a respectable holder. You've done your good deed for the day. image

    Joe
    The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition. image


  • Just the fact that the coin wasn't cleaned or tooled is a surprise!

    Discounting the grade on an ACG coin doesn't hold up.

    I have been down that road and have taken my beatings but NO MORE!

    Its scarry enough to see AH buying PCGS slabs on Ebay! As I walked by the both at the FUN show I noticed out of the corner of my eye he only had PCGS and NGC slabs for sale. There were maybe only a handful of ACG coins. Hmmm?


    Larry
    Dabigkahuna
    image
  • wingedlibertywingedliberty Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭
    WOW!!!, and they still have the guts to claim in their ad that they have not had any complaints in
    18 years. How dare they!



    Brian.
  • MrLeeMrLee Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭
    Here's some close up pictures. I'll let you decide for yourself if you think it would go 65.
    image
    image
    The strike is not that strong and while the obverse looks pretty good, the reverse has some bads hits on it. Notice the hit above "UNITED" and the spot just to the right and middle of the eagle's wing. It's also definitely not PL. If I thought for a moment it would upgrade, it would be on it's way in a heart beat. I'm just going to have to take my lumps and be thankful that it got holdered (by a real grading company)at 64.
  • 64, IMO
  • TrimeTrime Posts: 1,863 ✭✭✭
    Mr Lee,
    I don't collect Morgans but this is a nice looking coin. MS 64 seems just right.
    As others have said: a 2 point decrease from an ACG to NGC coin is a tribute to your eye.
    If this is your worst mistake then you are a lucky man.
    Trime
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146
    Ok I see now.Maybe its not a 65,and maybe lucky to get 64 with that reverse damage.Ouch.

    BTW That ACG pic sure is doctored.Someone no doubt photoshopped it into shape.image

    AND I commend you for your photographing ability.
    Those are really sharp shots .You can really see the fine detail in the coin.
    Very nice job

  • MrLeeMrLee Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭



    << <i>BTW That ACG pic sure is doctored.Someone no doubt photoshopped it into shape. >>

    I hadn't thought of that. So I enlarged the original scan and, sure enough, it was altered.
    image
    He even stated in the listing, "I do not alter the color, brightness, or any other aspects of my scans." He must have his kids do it for him.

    Good eye on spoting that Cam40.

    BTW. It was purchased from proof70dcam on eBay early last year.
  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for a great post. I don't chase Morgans, but it confirms my own observations exactly. I've looked at a fair amount of ACG and NTC gold in the 63-65 range. IMO, 75% is two (or more) points high, the other 25% is a point high (and most of those are in the 63 slabs). PCI is a little better, but again almost always at least a point high. I have yet to find a 64 or 65 in any of these holders that I thought deserved the grade. Like most, I only regret the "lessons" that a lot of newbies will unwittingly pay for courtesy of these guys.
    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....

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