A deceptive Fake

tradedollarnut · January 13, 2003 3:38AM

This appears to be one of the new generation of fakes coming out of China. Note the low relief and crisp details. The 5 in the date is slightly off and some of the very small fine details are missing:

ebay trade dollar

nwcs · January 13, 2003 3:41AM

Very well made. Transfer die counterfeit? I wonder how the seller appropriated this piece?

Outhaul · January 13, 2003 3:44AM

Aside from the hairlines all over the place, it just doesn't look right. But, I'll tell you one thing, if you put that thing in a tumbler for a bit to simulate some wear, you'd be hard pressed to detect it right off the bat. Best quality fake I've ever seen.

Cheers,

Bob

Placid · January 13, 2003 3:44AM

A cleaned fake. It's a good fake. I wouldn't have know it was.

dragon · January 13, 2003 3:56AM

Yes, there's all kinds of stuff wrong with that coin. It seems like the Chinese are countertfeiting just about everything these days, I even saw a Chinese made counterfeit DuPont lighter the other day.

dragon

relayer · January 13, 2003 3:57AM

I dunno I'd bid on it.

I've never seen a magical levitating trade dollar before.

prooflike · January 13, 2003 4:07AM

I could not tell the difference, but then I know next to nothing about trade dollars.

Russ · January 13, 2003 4:09AM

Yep, this is one of those ones where a newb like me could get screwed blue - if this forum didn't exist.

Russ, NCNE

Pushkin · January 13, 2003 4:17AM

Shouldn't the coin have "Made in China" stamped on it someplace?

I thought that was a requirement, especially for one of our beloved "most favored nation" trading partners?

They also skin cats alive over there by the thousands and import the fur to the US, calling it "natural fur".

Sure glad they are our "friends".

PM me if you would like a link to the terrible, increadibly cruel things Chinese "fur" companies are doing to domestic animals - but it will require a strong stomach for you to read.

dragon · January 13, 2003 4:19AM

How many here think that piece would fool ACG, and they'd holder it as genuine?

dragon

Russ · January 13, 2003 4:19AM

TDN,

What about this other one he has listed? Is it also a fake?

Russ, NCNE

EVillageProwler · January 13, 2003 4:21AM

The coin is clearly a fake. The reverse, for example, has a T1-style (sorta) berry and a T2-style berry. The berries are all wrong!

EVP

EVillageProwler · January 13, 2003 4:25AM

Russ,

I would say that the '76-S is also a fake. The lower portion of the ribbon on the obv looks very wrong to me.

EVP

dragon · January 13, 2003 4:30AM

Yes, that one is bad too. Not as well done as the other one though.

dragon

Russ · January 13, 2003 4:34AM

Man, the waters are shark infested. Good thing I only collect stuff nobody counterfeits.

Russ, NCNE

nwcs · January 13, 2003 4:37AM

You obviously haven't seen my accented hairpieces for '64 JFKs...

tradedollarnut · January 13, 2003 4:38AM

I'd like to expand on what EVP is talking about regarding the berries [the 76-S is fake for sure - look for yourself].

The type I reverse, with the berry under the eagle's claw, has a couple of flat oblong berries on the olive branch. The type II reverse, without the berry under the eagle's claw, has a couple of round blobby berries on the olive branch. These coins both have the wrong type of berries to go with the berry under the eagle's claw. FAKES! I've emailed the seller, let's see if he's a scam artist or will pull the auctions.

keoj · January 13, 2003 4:41AM

This one is a pretty good fake but not that good. As EVP pointed out, the berry;s are all wront. The "wrongness" that caought my eye was the definition in Miss Liberty's robes. Way too defined to be real.....if you look carefully, you can see how tooled the coin looks. Hair, robe, berry's, etc. Like I said though, not bad as fakes go.

keoj

Draco · January 13, 2003 4:43AM

Ok, I'm on on again/off again coin collector and I don't believe that I've ever seen a fake. Can anyone point me to some helpful information on spotting them? I seems to recall someone posting an indian gold piece that PCGS bagged as a fake. Obviously, I'd like to avoid that kind of thing.

dragon · January 13, 2003 5:53AM

Ok, I did a search on this seller and it looks like he has a track record of also selling other counterfeit Bust and trade dollars in the past. He even sold a 1906 silver dollar to someone,,,LOLOLOL!

dragon

nwcs · January 13, 2003 6:06AM

Draco, the ANA sells a video on counterfeit detection with JP Martin. There is also a counterfeit detection newsletter. You can find them at www.money.org and looking at their "moneymarket" area.

Russ · January 13, 2003 6:09AM

Geez, even I can tell this one is bogus.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · January 13, 2003 6:11AM

Bwuahahahahahahahaha!!!!! Dragon wasn't kidding! You guys have got to check this one out!

Russ, NCNE

nwcs · January 13, 2003 6:13AM

I have to admit, those are funny. Still, shouldn't ebay be throwing these guys out for selling counterfeits?

AbesNeighbor · January 13, 2003 6:21AM

At least the overgraded, creatively photographed, non-returnable, non-certified coins that I bought on E-bay were authentic........I think!

Russ · January 13, 2003 6:27AM

<< <i>Still, shouldn't ebay be throwing these guys out for selling counterfeits? >>

They should, and we shall see if they do. I just reported him, with links to some of his auctions. I also sent him an eMail telling him he's been reported and that he might want to shut down his auctions before eBay does it for him.

Russ, NCNE

Outhaul · January 13, 2003 6:39AM

So did I, Russ.

Draco · January 13, 2003 7:16AM

Darn. . I needed that rare 1906-E to complete my collection, too

. . .still trying to figure out what the E means

shirohniichan · January 13, 2003 7:21AM

The 1876-S he has for sale has counterfeit written all over it, but the 1875-S was really good!

Outhaul · January 13, 2003 7:21AM

Encino?

dlshaw · January 13, 2003 7:34AM

If he is scamming, I wouldn't think he would make such a good looking scan with Closeup.

Merc · January 13, 2003 10:47AM

Randy Campbell of ANACS reported that 1/2 to 1/3 of the trade dollars sent to ANACS in the last 3 months have been fakes. He thought most were good enough to fool many dealers as real coins.

Russ · January 14, 2003 1:57AM

This one is a strange bird. I've sent several very pointed eMails to this seller, pointing out their previous sales of counterfeit material, pointing out that this is a criminal act, pointing out that they have been reported to eBay, pointing out that they are a thief and a fraud, and every single reponse is this one single line:

<< <i>I am not sure if this is real or fake. I am not a collector. Thank. >>

They're right, they're not a collector, they're a scumbag. They know exactly what they're doing. I'm sure this slimeball must have been reported to eBay before this. Why are they still selling?

Russ, NCNE

KAJ1 · January 14, 2003 2:26AM

<< <i>Some old medium toning We chose not to dip >>

If he is not a coin collector,how would he know about dipping?

DDR · January 14, 2003 4:23AM

Good post TDN! There are a lot of fake Trade dollars out there now. Thanks for bringing these to our attention.

tjkillian · January 14, 2003 4:29AM

Does anyone know who 'scumthumper' is? He is bidding on both fake trade dollars.

Tom

Russ · January 14, 2003 10:38AM

The seller added a limp disclaimer to the auctions (they should just be shut down), but at least some people are starting to retract bids.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · January 16, 2003 8:32AM

eBay nuked the auctions. Another victory for truth, justice and the American way.

Russ, NCNE

A deceptive Fake

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