An interesting Seated Dollar

EVillageProwler

Hi folks,

Bowers has this lot available in their pre-FUN 2003 sale. Aside from a passing numismatic interest in this specimen, I have no interest in owning it. As such, I feel ok to draw attention to it.

This coin is interesting to me in two ways, one for what it has (and you can see it), and one for what it apparently doesn't have (or, the cataloger doesn't mention it).

Please observe the obverse of this coin and tell me if you see anything outstanding of numismatic significance.

EVP

FC57Coins

EVP:

There appear to be some planchet flaws to the left of Liberty and to the right of the date - is this what you're referring to?

Looking at the coin again, it also appears to have very square edges.

Frank

EVillageProwler

There appear to be some planchet flaws to the left of Liberty and to the right of the date - is this what you're referring to?

I normally would not find any numismatic value in planchet flakes of the kind to the right of the date. And, they just seem like normal abrasions to me. As for the flaws to the left of liberty... can you be more specific wrt location? ``Left of liberty'' is a pretty big area. Perhaps you can specify location relative to star #?

EVP

EVillageProwler

Looking at the coin again, it also appears to have very square edges.

Ahhh... Nice catch. This wasn't what I was referring to, so there's something else.

As for the squared edges, it is hard to tell for certain, but most 1842 specimens are of average to above average strike.

EVP

shirohniichan

Do you mean the rounded depressions around stars 3 and 6?

Does this coin come with the FWH (Full Wavy Hair) designation?

FC57Coins

Between the hand and star #2 I see something which appears to be a bulge, but that might be the toning. Now, back to the square edges, the coin seems to be a very very good strike too - do you think it's a proof?

Frank

CalGold

Definitely a buldge of some sort in the filed by stars 1 and 2. Is this struck over another coin with the bulge being the vestige of the first strike?

CG

Placid

Dosent the hand on the flag usually have a finger pointing up?
The S shape on the bare shoulder near the clasp looks odd.
The date has a serif on the 4 and the base of the 2 is straight so I would guess it's the large date variety?

EVillageProwler

Shiroh,

I don't see the rounded depression around star 6, but the one around star 3 is related to the bulge that Frank mentioned.

Frank,

That die bulge is very interesting to me. The number of dies used to coin the 1842 is unknown, but that bulge is a clear diagnostic of an 1842 BUSINESS strike. It is definitely NOT a proof.

That bulge is a result of a die failure.

As for it being well struck, keep in mind that most Seated Dollars were not minted in quantity. The P mint apparently took better care of its strikes than the other mints.

This date also comes with a feature that is NOT mentioned by the cataloger: die striae. The striae imparts a nice PL finish to the coin. Unfortunately, the coin rarely comes with a cameo aspect because the coin tends to be more satiny than frosty. Too bad.

There is another prominent problem with an 1842 obv die: a die cud at the rim on the lower right, roughly between the foot and the final star. If I find one, I'll see if I can post a picture.

BTW, this coin is considered a type coin in MS. Yet, it is virtually unknown above MS64. (I believe there is none yet certified above MS64 by either NGC or PCGS. My own specimen, with faint die striae and no bulge or cud, is an MS64.)

EVP

EVillageProwler

Placid,

What flag? There is a hand on the shield, and one on the staff with a liberty cap atop.

EVP

DesertLizard

As always, most informative~

Placid

The S shape on the bare shoulder near the clasp looks odd.
The date has a serif on the 4 and the base of the 2 is straight so I would guess it's the large date variety?
Forget about the finger thing I was thinking about something else.
Edit:
I thought it was half dollar so there are no date varietys.

FC57Coins

EVP - for those of us with mere mortal vision I've blown the picture up. As for the diecud, are you referring to the area next to star1 on the right? - Do I see the same type of marking next to the date?

Frank

EVillageProwler

The S shape on the bare shoulder near the clasp looks odd.

Looks ok to me.

The date has a serif on the 4 and the base of the 2 is straight so I would guess it's the large date variety?

For Seated Dollars, the date position is often used to tell different obv dies apart. I have never seen size differences on any of Seated Dollar of any date/mint. Moreover, all the obv dies were made with the ``18'' already there. The last two digits were punched on as a finishing touch before striking.

Forget about the finger thing I was thinking about something else.

Forget what?

EVP

EVillageProwler

CalGold,

The specimen above does not look like an over-struck specimen to me. In fact, I have never heard of one involving a Seated Dollar before. If I hear of one, I would be very interested in owning one and writing an article on it for the Gobrecht Journal.

EVP

EVillageProwler

Frank,

Thanks for the blowup. The alleged die cud may be there. I don't have a good visual memory of it. I believe I've only seen the cud on ONE specimen, and it was more prominent.

EVP

Placid

Is the coin slabbed? It's to well struck to compare with other dollars of that year.
What do you think it will sell for?

FC57Coins

EVP - thanks for the post. These are always very informative. Next time I'm in the city I'd love to buy you a cup of coffee!

Frank

EVillageProwler

Placid: the coin is slabbed MS62. I don't know what it'll go for... perhaps around $2K. Seated Dollars are incredibly under-appreciated, and this date is one of the most common.

Frank: thanks, but I don't drink coffee. I drink pretty much everything else, just not coffee.

EVP

asnooker

Is she wearing glasses? LOL in the blow up picture? I think the bulge is most interesting.