Wouldn't eBay consider this auction "gratuitous"?

Russ

1868 PCGS AU55 3-Cent Nickel NOT KAPPY's I've done business with Kappy's Coins and have been very pleased every time. Considering the subjective nature of grading, I think this may be unwarranted.

Russ, NCNE

dorkkarl

of course, i agree that grading is subj., however, the differential between circ'd & uncirc'd is (or should be) fairly definitive. ie. there's a lot more subjectivity between au-50 & au-55 then there is between au-55 & ms-60 (or au-58 & ms-61).

that said, i'd think there'd be minimal difference in $ between au-55 & ms-60 for this coin.

K S

wingedliberty

I think its a breach of ettiquette. I would never reference the original source like that.


Brian.

tjkillian

I've bought from Kappy before and had to return the coin as way over graded. It should be clear to any expert collector on whether a coin is AU-55 or uncirculated. PCGS gives out the infamous "AU-58" for those questionable pieces.

Tom

Outhaul

Yet another good reason to stay away from raw coins on eBay.

I do think, however, this seller's auction is in poor taste. While I've never done business with Kappy, I'm certain that with the volume he does he would have accomodated this guy and made good. At least it wouldn't hurt to ask. Just my opinion.

Cheers,

Bob

NumisEd

First of all, why does the seller, Pass-N-Stow, assume that PCGS is better at grading than Kappy? I don't know either seller, but perhaps Kappy is a very talented grader and grades based on characteristics inherent to certain series and not commercially, like most plastic companies.

Secondly, if Pass-n-Stow (or whatever their name is) is soooooo darned special, then why did he send in a coin that was AU with the hopes of getting an UNC grade? If he's such a "power seller", then one would assume that he knew just a little bit about numismatics and art/science of grading. Guess not. He/she should learn how to grade. As soon as he/she received the alleged over graded coin from Kappy, then pass-n-snow should have requested a refund from Kappy. Right?

Finally, who would spend the extra money to certify an 1868 3 cent nickel?????

braddick

It's not playing nice, but to be fair- I've seen the same practice of mocking and disparaging an eBay'er done here based on a solo experience with that seller.

It's just human nature, I guess.
But- to the point: It isn't a nice thing to do and I judge the seller a bit more harshly than I do his source for this coin by his actions.

prooflike

Or why didn't P&S crack out the coin and pass it on to some other sucker as UNC??

Lesson Learned Reiteration -- stay away from ebay RAW coins!

ajaan

NumisEd, good point. Obviously the buyer, Pass-n-Stow thought the coin to be Uncirculated or they wouldn't have sent it to be certified.

danglen

I have cracked out coins that came back AU-58, resubmitted them to the same grading service, and have had them come back MS-62. The reverse also holds true. Although I think there is a MAJOR difference between an AU-58 (beautiful, relatively mark free coin with just a touch of rub on the high spots) and an MS-60 (coin that is beat up and seriously ugly, referred to as "JUNK UNC" by many graders), the difference between AU-58 and MS-62 may be the difference between fresh eyes and tired eyes. Give me an AU-58 over an MS-60 any day!!! As Bill Fivaz likes to say, "AU is the grade of the future".

dimeadzn

Does anyone think these grading differences may be due, in part, to the differences in grading styles?

For instance, I've heard that the initial grade should be reached within the first ten seconds and then modified on closer examination. However, I've also read that some modern proof collectors view their coins under 20x magnification before they determine a grade. I'm not sure how well any older uncirculated coin would bear such close examination. Therefore, maybe bias is unintentionally creeping into the grading of such coins?

Any thoughts?

gmarguli

Maybe P'n'S made a mistake and meant to send it to PCI for MS66, such as this rare 1978 PCI MS66 Ike Eisenhower Half 50c

danglen

Boy, that toning on the IKE half sure looks pretty "eerie" to me.

DCAMFranklin

I think this is a case of someone straying into a series of which he/she had little or no knowledge. I don't care for the tactic of naming the original seller. However, I would bet it is from frustration. Pass-and-Stow is a very discriminating buyer and seller of the Franklin series. Very strong in the series. Probably was expecting some concessions from Kappy and received none. Freshman mistake! Just so no one takes offense, I'm not trying to advertise for Pass-and-Stow, nor am I trying to defend the tactic. I will say this. He has 1,918 Positive feedbacks with ZERO neutrals and ZERO negatives. A very admirable track record.

dorkkarl

agreed.

K S

JMOORE

Since I'm fairly new to the forums I have not said much when it comes to all of
the "attacking others" that seems to go on around here quite frequently.

But since this "attack" is against some one that I personally know it's time to say something.

Seems like when someone bashes an eBay seller around here most everyone jumps on the bandwagon. But when someone "outside" of the forum does it he is a bad guy.

I have known pass-and-stow for over 20-years and he is an honest trustworthy person.

Did it ever occur to some of you that what DCAM is saying just might be the case? Could it possibly be that this is a series that is not his expertise and he took a chance sending the coin in to be graded?

I can tell you one thing, he knows his Franklins as well as, or better than anyone around here.

Can we PLEASE get back to talking about coins?

danglen

I can tell you one thing, he knows his Franklins as well as, or better than anyone around here.


BETTER THAN LUCY?????

MosesBlack

The truth is the perfect defense in a slander or libel case.

itsnotjustme

Looks like the seller can't tell the difference between AU55 and MS either... otherwise, would have returned the coin when he bought it.

braddick

JMOORE- What you write makes perfectly good sense to me, but what do you think of the tactic of "outing" the original source for a coin that didn't turn out the way the buyer- and now seller- believed it would?

Mike921

Yea, I agree the original seller was selling it on his opinion and the guy selling it now must have been fooled by the way it looked to send it in for grading without asking for a return instead posted the seller's ID and how it was overgraded.... Sounds dirty to me. Wonder if he contacted the original seller about it first.

twodollardon

Well P & S doesn't put enough light on a coin to see any discrepancy. If the coin is that great I would like everyone to see it?????

Don

segoja

We all hold the grading services as infalible. They clearly are not. Last I looked, grading is an art. They tried the science part, and it didn't work.

I have one coin that I bought in a PCGS holder at the 1991 FUN show, a 1970-D Half. The first one graded MS66. Piad big bucks for it as the one and only. I think the coin is a 67. It's the best I've ever seen. I've submitted the coin at least 10 times.

The coin has graded as follows:

Body bagged - the longest it's been out of a PCGS holder is 4 weeks since I bought it 11 years ago

MS 63
MS 64
MS 65
MS 66

That's a big range for the same coin, but I've never seen a miss on AU vs BU.

leothelyon

For those who know Kappy coins, this coin just might be very decent or a high end and a great bargain since PCGS has been tough lately with their grading.

Leo

doops

<< <i>I think this is a case of someone straying into a series of which he/she had little or no knowledge. I don't care for the tactic of naming the original seller. However, I would bet it is from frustration. Pass-and-Stow is a very discriminating buyer and seller of the Franklin series. Very strong in the series. Probably was expecting some concessions from Kappy and received none. Freshman mistake! Just so no one takes offense, I'm not trying to advertise for Pass-and-Stow, nor am I trying to defend the tactic. I will say this. He has 1,918 Positive feedbacks with ZERO neutrals and ZERO negatives. A very admirable track record. >>


*
YEAH, YOU SURE KNOW A LOT DONT YOU ? KNOW A LOT OF FOLKS DONT YOU ? RENDER A LOT OF OPINIONS DONT YOU ? YOU'RE A WORTHLESS, TWO-FACED COWARDLY TROUBLEMAKER AND EVERYONE ON HERE IS FAST FIGURING THAT OUT, ARENT THEY ? YOU'RE BITTER WITH AN AXE TO GRIND OVER A FEW MATTERS. TO OUR SURPRISE,SEVERAL HAVE EMAILED US LAST NIGHT AND TODAY AND PEGGED YOU FIRST SHOT ! YOU DONT HAVE AS MANY FOOLED AS YOU THOUGHT,EXCEPT FOR THE COLLECTORS. WHO ELSE WOULD HAVE SUCH AN AXE TO GRIND ? ONLY YOU. A FEW HAVE EMAILED US IN CONFINDENCE AS IF WE DIDNT ALREADY KNOW AND THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS GUESSING EMAILS BECAUSE THEY SMELLED A RAT IN YOU ALREADY ANYHOW. SO TELL EM SALLY, WHAT'S YOUR EBAY ID SO WE CAN FINISH THE BIG STORY.

KlectorKid

doops u have convinced every one here you are an arse, isnt your job done now?

DCAMFranklin

<< <i>Since I'm fairly new to the forums I have not said much when it comes to all of
the "attacking others" that seems to go on around here quite frequently.

But since this "attack" is against some one that I personally know it's time to say something.

Seems like when someone bashes an eBay seller around here most everyone jumps on the bandwagon. But when someone "outside" of the forum does it he is a bad guy.

I have known pass-and-stow for over 20-years and he is an honest trustworthy person.

Did it ever occur to some of you that what DCAM is saying just might be the case? Could it possibly be that this is a series that is not his expertise and he took a chance sending the coin in to be graded?

I can tell you one thing, he knows his Franklins as well as, or better than anyone around here.

JMoore- Glad to see you are the kind of fellow that defends his friends. Pass-and-Stow is a fine buyer/seller on Ebay and his ability with Franklins is unquestioned. He stepped out of his expertise and didn't too bad, really. Lots of colletors attempt to go beyond their knowledge and have their head handed to 'em. You are a standup guy! Thanks for your input.


Can we PLEASE get back to talking about coins? >>

mr1931S

i think it's,at the least,tacky to put another member's ID in the auction title...
technically,i think it's against ebay's rules...if i was Kappy i'd be complaining to ebay and asking for them to make Pass-n-Stow remove my ID from his auction title...

DCAMFranklin

Some additional information about Kappy's.