Do Dealers Tell Newbe's there stuff is not worth submitting only to buy, then submit coins themselve

thankyou

Hi,

I am a newbie. Thanks in advance for any help or advice on my following question. I have a few coins, and I took them to a local Oregon dealer ( Bradly's ), and he told me the following, wasn't worth submitting to pcgs. Here are the pics. Will you please give me your advice as to if it is or not.





I am confused to that, as It seems from this following auction, that it would certainly be worth submitting but I am not an expert. The strike on my 03 seems as good as the example in the auction referrenced, actually, mine seems pretty much clearer and more detailed than the example in the auction. Aside from, the one in the auction has been cleaned. ( as 2 auctions ago on this same coin, it had gold toning on the outer edges of it, Which is now gone. Here is the auction of the coin like mine:


Text


The dealer said that my coin, wasn't worth anything. Do dealers often pull stunts, or is this a bad coin???. There are only like one or 2 extremely limited marks on the coin under the toning ( you can see the one on the cheek). It does of course seem to be true toning ( the "gold" toning) the Morgans can attain, and I believe it has been in a bag it's entire life. The dealer told me it wasn't worth anything, then told me it wasn't worth submitting because someone had tried to clean it, but then was going to offer me money for it. I can see what he is talking about, but there are no "cleaning" or rather scuff or scratch marks on the coin in the non toned parts, and if it was cleaned, someone was very sensative as there are NO scuffs or scratch marks from anything in the parts where the toning was less. When the dealer looked at the coin he grabbed it and put his thumb right on the cheek. It was in a bag, but I was wondering if this is typical proffessional procedure for dealers. Lastly, I am new so please bare with me on these last ones; should I get acetone and bring this thing to very near perfect? Should I submit this coin to PCGS? What do you think it would grade? and Value? Any help is appreciated very much and thank you alot for your time.


THANKYOU

paigowjohnny

Looks cleaned and AU to me from the picture....

Placid

I will guesstimate the value at a max of $70.

thankyou

Why only AU? Plz

thankyou

thankyou

It has a stronger strike and in very close to as good as shape as the one in the auction. (which is MS67).

Thanks,

More confused now.

Placid

It's a 64 in my opinion max. It might be au or cleaned but I won't try to judge that from a scan.
If you see a 67 that has a mark on the cheek like yours it's not graded correct.

thankyou

a 66 from pcgs website can have a small mark on the cheek and a couple sutle field marks, providing the strike is strong. Do they not grade the same way they say on the site?

thankyou very much

Placid

I don't consider that a small mark myself.
A small mark to me is the one near the nostril.

kranky

I agree that the mark on the cheek clearly takes the coin out of 67. And I'm concerned about the greenish look to some of the areas on the obverse; could it be PVC?

What did the dealer offer you for the coin?

thankyou

I have several,

some 1880 - 0 coins than are nice as well. He said none were worth turning in as they were not desirable by year, etc.

thankyou

thankyou

I believe the coin was in the plastic bag you see it sitting on from about the day it was put out. but not sure what is on the reverse. seems that it may have been the "typical" goldish toning I see on a lot of the 1903's. but maybe it was sliding back and forth in the bag and it got smudged, etc. but again. not sure. The dealer told me all the coins were worth nothing. Then said "wait" as I walked towards the door, and he said, "there's still some money there"....... ..... ( he seemed shifty, but only my opionion of course. )

thankyou

jcping

The coin has minimum luster so that I doubt it is an MS coin. Mostly likely, it is an AU and possibly cleaned and re-toned.

With the tick on the chin, the coin is out of MS67 nor MS66, IMO.

thankyou

could it possibly be a pl or dm?

(srry I'm new to this)

thankyou

I really appreciate all your peoples timed!

coinguy1

thankyou,

Welcome! and you asked a number of good questions.

I can't tell for certain from the images, if it is worth submitting. However, if it grades MS64 or less (and if it has been cleaned it should grade less than MS64, if it grades at all) it is probably not worth spending the grading fees and postage to have it graded. The strike and abrasions are secondary considerations to the grade if the coin has been cleaned.

Hopefully, the dealer was being honest with you. The fact that he offered money for it does not mean it was not cleaned and it does not mean it is worth submitting for grading. If the coin was in a "bag" when the dealer handled it, it should be fine. It does sound, however, like he might have been more careful with it. My best guess is that it is a $30 coin, give or take $5 to $10.

Edited to add - it does not appear to be PL or DPL and if it has been cleaned, any potential high grades (65 and up) are out the door.

Nap

It's usually hard to tell from a scan whether a coin was cleaned. If your dealer was being honest and truly thought the coin looked clean, it is understandable he would tell you that it was a waste to submit it to PCGS. PCGS and NGS will not grade obviously cleaned coins, and you will have wasted your money sending it to them. If the cleaning was harsh, you should be able to see hairlines under a small magnification (5x or so) that resulted from someone wiping or scrubbing the surface. If no such markings are visible, it is possible your coin was dipped, in which case there will probably be next to no luster on it despite its good details. Skilled dippings can go through grading services unnoticed, but most coin dippings from long ago were not done with the utmost of care.

The strike is nice, but the grade is not totally dependent on it. A good strike but evidence of "rub" from handling will limit the grade of the coin to AU.

I might venture to guess that the coin looks dipped, as the face, hair, and field are reflecting about the same amount of light and not looking lustrous.

That doesn't mean it isn't worth anything, but it is worth less than an original uncirculated or AU coin.

thankyou

Same with this one????

Thankyou very much people.




I really appreciate your help. I am new ( can you tell) lol

thankyou

prooflike

Looks cleaned/retoned from the images provided(looks very lackluster and looks AU-55 at best(flatness on lower hair curls and forehead curls and eagle leg feathers), 1903 was typically well struck.

thankyou

BTW,

Mark, thank you for the nice encouragement. It made me feel more at ease.

thankyou

thankyou

I wanted to add, The first thing the dealer did was pick up the bag and depress his thumb directly on the cheek firmly. ( which is probably no big deal )

darktone

thankyou- welcome to the forumn! the 1880-O is also a AU coin and it is much easier to see the high point rub. mike

coinguy1

thankyou, you'rewelcome! Sorry, I couldn't help myself with that one. I am glad you feel more at ease, though.


The other coin you posted looks low enough grade so as not to be worth submitting, either - sorry. A lot of people (including some who should know better) send coins in for grading and end up wasting the fees and the postage. Often, the lower grade/less valuable coins can be sold in uncertified state, for prices close to what they can in the holders.

thankyou

Mike,

Thank you very much! All of your warm welcomes are very much appreciated.

I do have another question. ( sry )

Would it be imposing to take pictures of the rest of my coins and post then and ask your opionions on them?

Thank you,

Carl

Placid

<< <i>I wanted to add, The first thing the dealer did was pick up the bag and depress his thumb directly on the cheek firmly. ( which is probably no big deal ) >>



Well fingerprints don't help much.
I wonder why he would do that?

thankyou

I didn't get it either. But he did do it. In no uncertain terms. Directly obviously and purposely ( not that it matters and that's maybe why he did it.



thankyou,

Carl

Placid

I had a coin not grade at pcgs because it was "thumbed".
It's done to try to hide flaws on the surface but I don't understand why a dealer would do that to a coin he was going to evaluate.

Even though the dealer probably gave you a fair assesment of your coins I don't know if I would want to continue to do business with him if he does such things to coins.

MacCoin

I hope you didn't pay big bucks for it. it looks like it came out of the 12.00 coin jar at my local shop.

BigE

thankyou, I say post as many as you want----BigE

thankyou

thank all of you! I'm getting pics ready now. fun fun. lol

cyou in a bit!

car

P.s. I'm "thumbing" them all. I can tell the dealer, " I learned it from watching "YOU". LOL


thanksl

P.s.s.

It's getting bad here. Just used a 1922 d peace dollar for some Pepsi. seriously too. LOL

mr1931S

i think MS67 is mighty liberal of NGC on that auction 1903 dollar...

your coin appears to me to be about uncirculated and has been cleaned...

you'd be wasting your money submitting to PCGS,in my opinion,based on what i see in your images,thankyou...

even if uncirculated and uncleaned,i don't think PCGS will grade your dollar MS65 because of the hit on the all-important cheek of Liberty...MS64 is doubtful...maybe MS63...PCGS allows for "light cleaning" in 63 i think but if they see "harshly cleaned" you won't even get 63 out of them...i've got an ICG graded MS62 Morgan dollar that looks better than that 1903 NGC MS67 dollar in the ebay auction...

your coin is not "not worth anything" as you have told us the dealer said...get a second opinion
about your dollar for that reason alone...yes,there are dealers who will pull "stunts" as you say...

prooflike

Turn on your PM (private mail) in your profile so people can contact you privately int he future.

Visit the Coin Grader website link below and read about Morgans... it will help you alot.

thankyou

Thankyou Kind sir or Maam. I am learning a lot today. Thankyou.

Carl

getting more pics ready. Hope that not imposing. This is kind of fun, kind of dissapointing ( on the values ), BUT I thank God everyday for every breath, so you won't hear me complain about anything less short of just that. "no more breath". Then I will complain. lol

Carl

ps.

Private mail is turned on. TY

thankyou

Here is the other 1880-O with the "big-O"




This is the 1882-O


1883-S



1883-O ( seems PL but a little beat up )



Are any of these worth submitting. Again, Thank you guys. I already feel a sence that your not just looking out for yourselves in here. Kind of neat! Don't run across that too often. If I am imposing please just tell me to bug off. I know how to do that. lol


Thank you again,

Carl

mr1931S

on the 1880-O...agree with most everyone else here that this coin is definitely not uncirculated...

1880-O is quite common in about uncirculated...i had a really nice au 1880-0 once upon a time...
very minimal marks and very lustrous...very light "rub",however...moneywise,the "rub" was the difference between a $20 coin and a coin worth hundreds,if not a $1000 or more...

save yourself even the minimum $15 grading fee and cost of two-way shipping ,thankyou,on the '80-O...noone,at least noone in this forum,is going to give you $50 for your PCGS encapsulated au 1880-O dollar...

prooflike

Nope, nothing worth submitting.

Placid

All au except the 83-s fine-very fine.
Nothing worth sending in.

paigowjohnny

My cut...

80-O EF-40
82-O AU-50
83-S VG-10/F-12
83-O maybe an MS-60...hard to tell

making no call on cleaning...

I wouldn't submit...keep them raw...you really don't gain anything...

JMHO...good luck

thankyou

Thank you!!!

Now I know the dealer wasn't pulling my leg. There are a coulple others but they are 1921 and a 1901-O and that's about it. The one 1921 is probably the nicest but still small scratches.

Anyhow, Thank you very much.

If I was to sell these to the dealer or anyone. Any Ideas on what they'd be worth.


( one more coin I have is a 1923s Monroe. ) It is dirty. but good strike for an ugly coin.


Srry if that's a dumb question. Trying to get more Pepsi. lol

Thankyou again people! Very Much!

Carl

mr1931S

my opinion about '80-0 is on the first '80-O you posted a pic of,thank you...

if you send PCGS the dollars whose images you just recently posted...

i've got some prime desert land in Arizona that i think you would be very interested in...

thankyou

I was actually looking for a Bridge to buy..... lol.


Thank you. It's all for sale. ( a rumage sale ). Any bids and let me know. I'll sell it to the lowest bidder! lol!

Thank you people. I will not be able to stay off this board after talking to you all. I'm online quite a bit on da' bay and stuff. Oh, and the 1st person games. Thank you all very much for your time. Very much.


Merry Christmas!

Carl

darktone

thankyou- I agree with the others that none are worth sending in to PCGS but show us a picture of the Monroe- as many times the coin that is dirty to the novice is the true gem. mike

paigowjohnny

<< <i>If I was to sell these to the dealer or anyone. Any Ideas on what they'd be worth. >>




Taking a wild guess....from a dealer I'd say $8-10 per coin if you catch him on a good day...

thankyou

I'll take a pic of the Monroe. Thanks Mike.

brb,

Carl

airplanenut

Think of it like this... the dealer could have submitted the coins and let you deal with the loss/disappointment from the grades... he gave you the learning experience without having to pay... bigtime!

I agree with the bunch that it doesn't seem like anything is worth submitting... Welcome to the boards!

Jeremy

Mark

thankyou:

I agree with your assessment that everyone has given you excellent advice. I have one other suggestion: Tell us a bit about yourself. Are you a budding collector? I think everyone here will agree that coin collecting is an engrossing and incredibly fun activity (at least when there are no body bags from PCGS closely at hand). If you are thinking about starting a collection, I suspect that people here will be glad to offer more advice.

Mark

paigowjohnny

Mark is right...

You've got a nice little start on a set of circulated Morgans. Go get yourself a nice Dansco or Whitman album and plug a few holes. Coins don't have to be slabbed to be appreciated...

thankyou

I got these coins from my Dad, so I didn't really have an extreme fascination with them at that time, other than me saying, those are cool! He gave me them along with a shotgun! lol. Go figure! However, the fascination has grown a little since.

I am a little interested in them now for some reason. I at first thought they may or may not be worth something. (who would have thunk it). Anyhow, I studied the sites for a week or so. And obviously would still have much to learn. But I have enjoyed it even though I don't have any money. My fiancee was sitting next to me as I was reading the posts on the board, and she thought it was funny, as some guy ( on the boards talked about "holding that old silver in his hands" sometimes. I said, that's not that funny, that's cool. Holding a piece of history in your hands like that means something. I think the coin craze bit me a little at that point ( as I was sticking up for the guy! lol ).


Anyhow, I don't know where to go from here. I don't have a lot of time or really any extra money to buy coins with. ( I was serious about that peace dollar / drinking the pepsi now. ). But I've enjoyed this time ( the last week trying to referrence the coins and grade and etc. ( although I am no good at it.....lol)

Oh, the pic is done of that monroe ( it looks like it took a hit on the side there .... ) or a bad stamp or etc. Like I would be able to tell...hah.

I'm going to give this one a MSXF20!



That's got to be right! LOL

It is worth 1 american dollar and not a penny less! lol. That is my assesment as a beginner.





I did read somewhere that only 274 or so thousand of these were made. That's kinda cool.

Carl

thankyou

Your right Jeremy. He could have said, Okay, let's submit them. Then I'd be sorry! lol.

He actually was helping me. BTW, Jeremy thank you for the nice welcome to the boards!


Carl

Mark

thankyou:

I suspect others can make better suggestions, but to see if you can be hooked by coin collecting, I suggest you invest about $8-$10 in a book, the so-called "Red Book." I think the official title is "A Guide Book of United States Coins" by R.S. Yeoman, edited by Kenneth Bressett. You can buy it on ebay or most large bookstores. This is a real treasure trove of information about most all aspects of U.S. coin collecting. It has an immense amount of information, basic grading, and ballpark prices for U.S. coins. I think this is a relatively inexpensive way to determine if coin collecting is something you want to pursue. And, by all means have your fiancee flip through the book also. Unfortunately, the odds favor her disinterest because most collectors are male, but there are some truly noteable exceptions...some of whom are frequent posters on these boards!

Best of luck with your endeavors.

Mark

cladking

The coins in circulation are a blast to collect. The folders for them can be obtained
at bookstores and coin shops and the cost of filling them is nominal. Just be sure
to save the best examples you can find. When you have more money you can start
the more expensive collections. Moderns tell a story of an era too, and better exam-
ples tell it better.

The Redbook is of limited use for moderns. A recent issue of one of the coin weeklies
or monthlies is of equal utility and much cheaper. Check to be sure the coins you are
interested in are included since some rotate their coverage of the coins.

Bulldog

I would not buy it! Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Bulldog