concerning ms/proof 70 coins graded by ngc/pcgs and the value raw vs. in the holder..... what are yo

michael

if you cracked out a modern pcgs/ngc ms/proof 70 coin out of its holder after just buying it from a
dealer lets say within a day of getting the coin waht percentage of the price you paid for the coin
while it was still in the holder would the dealer buy back the coin at raw??

any thoughts

sincerely michael

airplanenut

Much less... leave it at that... no one will buy it as a 70 unless it is slabbed as such.. even then their are many skeptical dealers (except for the true "buy the holder" dealers)

shirohniichan

If the price in a PCGS holder were $1,000 in PF-70 and $400 in PF-69, the same coin would probably sell for $600 in NGC PF-70. When cracked out it would probably sell for about $300.

jom

You'd be extremely lucky to get $300. $50 is more like it since most dealers don't deal in moderns...meaning "high grade" moderns. You'd have to find someone who worked with moderns as a specialty.

jom

EDIT: Come to think of it I think $50 is too high.

lordmarcovan

What percentage? I would think you'd be lucky to get 5%, assuming you could find a dealer who bought such material. If my guess could be proven statistically, I would say that there is proof positive that buying MS/PR70 coinage is "buying the holder". Not necessarily an all-bad thing, but let's be realistic. It may sound absurd, but in my book, there is no such thing as a raw coin that grades over 65. Period. If it is raw, 65 is the highest attainable grade. And I don't believe in 70's unless they are PCGS/NGC. Even then, I'm not so sure I would buy them anymore, though I did in the past and did very well when I resold them. (I bought a few PCGS PR70 DCAM coins off Teletrade in 1998 for $50-75 each, and resold them in 2000-2001 for $350-375 each. I attribute this to the Registry phenomenon, about which my feelings are mixed, but mostly positive.)

barrytrot

Unfortunately, if you get your hands on a PCGS MS or PR 70 you pretty much are locked into keeping it in the holder unless you don't care about ever reselling it.

For one thing everyone knows that PCGS decides based on some arbitrary "moon position" guide whether to give something a 70 or not so your odds of re-70izing would be pretty much ZERO.

Right now a PCGS 70 will pretty much go over guide value 75+% of the time. Meanwhile a 69 can always be purchased under guide.

So, your crack becomes a 69 instantly and probably stays that way forever. Well, unless you decide to re-holder it at ACG.

Dog97

michael if I cracked a coin like that I would expect the dealer to buy it back at face.

TheNumish

It's madness I tell you, MADNESS!!!!!!!!!

Last weekend I bought a run of proof Kennedy Halves from 1979-1983 and paid something stupid for them. I will easily be able to sell them for $400 each or more. These coins were graded before 1998 when PCGS gave out a lot of 70 coins. If I broke the coins out they would be worth less than $5 each. If I broke them out and sent them back to PCGS they would grade 69 at best and be worth $15-$30 each. The only reason they are worth so much is because PCGS isn't grading coins 70 anymore and everyone wants them for the registry sets.

This all seems silly to me but who am I to judge. I paid $100 for a 2 Reales coin with a weird counterstamp on it for my collection that no one else would want. It's how I enjoy collecting and if someone enjoys buying proof 70 coins more power to them.

shirohniichan

Oy, the disease is worse than I thought.