Can ACG sue their bashers??

jmwarren

Slander is hard to prove.

Dave99B

ACG sucks.

Dave

Jaredc

They send out their occassional threats. Someone may be able to provide a link to a man who exposed Hager's E-bay front, though he denied it was him. It has some legal stuff ACG sent out and is terribly funny also.

Russ

A close look at Accugrade. BTW, that site is maintained by a member of these forums.

Russ, NCNE

jmwarren

who is the member?

Russ

K6AZ.

Russ, NCNE

MadMarty

He has had a lot better luck crossing ACG coins than I ever had!!! About 5 years ago when I first started buying slabbed coins, I bought the last coin for my Morgan set. A 1893-S in an AGC AU-53. Cracked and sent into PCGS, came back a EF-45. Bought the coin for a EF price, but then I learned about the cleanings and whizzings. I was soooooo glad that coin was un-worked-on.

danreller

I stand by my feelings of Accugrade.

Dan

danreller

I stand by my feelings of Accugrade.

Dan

danreller

I stand by my feelings of Accugrade.

Dan

danreller

Well,

This is the first time I stand by my "one click - tri-postings".

ACG - Accugrade - the "Slabbing , Non-Grading Company" is the worse one in the business.

Dan

PhillyJoe

I did a search on yahoo for accugrade. The #1 site was the accucr@p home page. Right below it was the site Russ mentioned. That's gotta make their blood boil.

BBBWWWAAAHHHAAAHHHAAA !!!!

Joe

Russ

Joe,

I just checked Google, and K6AZ's site comes in at #3 - right below accucrap. Number 4 is a site titled "Please Boycott Accugrade". Bwuahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

Russ, NCNE

PhillyJoe

You have to like any service that lets YOU put the grade on the submission form. I might email them asking if they'll be at The Baltimore show next week or are they still banned.

BBBWWWAAAHHAAAHHAHAHHA


Joe

BAJJERFAN

Eric aka K6AZ has been having some health problems, thus his absence from the boards in recent months. Not sure what his current status is.

gmarguli

What would ACG sue for? They have to have a reason. It has to be more than we are hurting their business. It has to be untruthful and hurt their business.

ursabear

ACG=P01 Grading Service.
Bwuahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

braddick

Greg- they also have to prove specific intent. That's tough to do. You're allowed to make a statement and be wrong.
It's when you know you're wrong, or should have known you were wrong, and you make the statement anyway.
That's slander.

You must also be specific in your statement.
To say, "PCGS blows chunks" is not slander.
To claim a member of the PCGS board- and to name him specifically with a wrong doing that you know to be factually incorrect is slander. Even then the accused must prove damages.
If you tell everyone in your neighborhood a certain named individual is a child rapist and you know it to be false he still must prove how you calling him a child rapist hurt his reputation and/or impeded on his livelyhood.

wayneherndon

In this country, ANYONE can sue for ANYTHING or NOTHING. There is no gatekeeper down at the courthouse that will prevent a frivolous suit from being filed. The clerk takes the filing fee and date stamp the petition and the suit is "filed" without a word having been read (at the courthouse at least). That is the bad news (for potential defendants (it's good news for people who want to quiet the opposition through intimidation)). Only after a suit has been filed, lawyers hired and motions (and perhaps evidence) heard does a judge (or perhaps ultimately a jury) decide if the suit has merit. This process is expensive even if you win. Frivolous lawsuits are filed by the hundreds everyday in this country and many of them are filed just to send a message to potential opposition that it will be expensive to speak out. Yes, they can sue. They likely won't win but they can make your speech the most expensive "free" thing you've ever enjoyed.

One can protect themselves somewhat from this legal intimidation by being clear to only present facts (e.g., "I bought this coin for x but could only sell it for y", "ACG graded this coin x; on crackout, PCGS gave it a y"). Do not submit to the temptation to exaggerate. Make clear that your opinions are just that, opinions. You can state facts supporting them or describe your expertise as reasons why your opinions should be given greater weight. Be wary of statements that are really opinions but are stated as if they are fact ("XYZ is a ripoff", etc. (try "In my [highly esteemed] opinion...")). If you overstep the legal bounds of free speech, you increase your risks of a slander/libel suit. Definately speak your piece-that's what this country is all about. But remember, two wrongs do not make a right.

WH

ANACONDA

Ah, yes, slander......generally speaking, slander is spoken, libel is written.

[Where are all the experts from the "currency question" thread? ("it's a free country.....it's just his opinion", blah, blah, blah...)]

Well, truth is a complete defense. And just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want.

Grading is subjective and there is no standard grading guidelines that are widely accepted, and there is a book on the ACG system (or something like that) which may (!) indicate that the ACG system of grading differs greatly from others.

However when you file a lawsuit you have what's known as discovery. Interrogatories, requests for production, requests for admissions, etc.

Discovery often keeps people from filing lawsuits. In Texas, things are essentially discoverable if they are reasonably calculated to lead to admissible information. That's a really big area.

Issues of credibility are discoverable. Other lawsuits. Convictions. Dirtly laundry. Correspondence, computer files, bookkeeping records (to prove damages....), etc., etc., etc.....

[I wonder why Alan Hagar (sp?) isn't the owner, but rather his wife? (.........PublicData.com)]

Plus, what would ACG's damages be? A diminished reputation? Among who? People who don't know how to read? Or think?

I can just hear it now......"Plaintiffs now call Butthead to the stand." "Uhh...huh huh....thankths your majesthty......"

adrian

ursabear

Wayne, I have a deep amount of respect for your opinion. I agree nearly entirely.

Judges, lawyers, and juries work based on precedence much more than the word of law.

That said, ACG was my first "certified" coin experience. I lost $20 on a $22 coin when I tried to get out of the coin (once I realized what was going on). I bought it from Mr. Hagar himself on eBay. I'm not bitter though, and I try VERY hard not to say bad things about him. He taught me a very valuable lesson: read and learn first, then buy.

keets

last i heard the truth was rewarded.

saying that "i think ACG consistently overgrades coins" is a statement of fact. how could that be perceived as bashing or libel. ACG seems to be proud of their reputation in numismatic circles. heck, they've been at it for quite some time, many have been howling for almost as long and they have done................................nothing to change. in fact, they've attempted to defend their actions.

when so many see the same thing, draw the same conclusion, well...................

al h.

Bikingnut

How can it be slander when coin grading is very subjective. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. (Even though we all know ACG sucks)

braddick

Accugrade is my twelvth favorite grading company! *






*There are only twelve known, right?!

MastaHanky

<< To claim a member of the PCGS board- and to name him specifically with a wrong doing that you know to be factually incorrect is slander. Even then the accused must prove damage. >>

NEWS ALERT: Braddick linked to DC Sniper Case, JFK Assassination, Global Warming, and People Who Drive Too Slow in the Fast Lane.

(neener neener!)

JD

I always thought the ANA Grading Book was or is the US coin industry accepted standard for market grading. Is this not so?

braddick

<< <i><< To claim a member of the PCGS board- and to name him specifically with a wrong doing that you know to be factually incorrect is slander. Even then the accused must prove damage. >> NEWS ALERT: Braddick linked to DC Sniper Case, JFK Assassination, Global Warming, and People Who Drive Too Slow in the Fast Lane. (neener neener!) >>



Hah!! I was five when JFK was shot, and beside... who's a bigger Kennedy fan than me?!

Russ

Yeah, Braddick, but considering your profession, he may have got that last one right.

Russ, NCNE

BAJJERFAN

I don't understand why ACG claims to have a different set of standards yet uses the same ANA designations that everyone else uses. Why doesn't every ACG slabbed coin come with a chart showing the relationship or equivance between ACG grades and ANA grades.