How To Beautifully Tone Modern Proof Coins

dragon

There is a dealer in the area that used to put many of his modern proof issues (proof Ikes, proof commems, proof silver eagles, etc.) in those dark blue Whitman(?) bookshelf albums and then put him out in his display case standing up with the pages spread open that would get the direct sun for several hours per day. After about 6-12 months, nearly every coin in these albums would develop beautiful toning, mostly powder blues, pinks, light greens, with rose color and sometimes golden centers, and some would even develop vivid concentric rainbow rings around the edges. I've seen this happen several times as he would routinely change the coins after they would tone like this, and put in fresh untoned ones. Some coins would also tone more than others depending on where they were placed in the albums I noticed.

Just thought I would share this.......and no, I do not work for the Whitman company.

Dragon

Russ

<< <i>he would routinely change the coins after they would tone like this, and put in fresh untoned ones. >>



What did he do with the toned ones?

Russ, NCNE

braddick

Also make sure you don't dip the coins first. They got to have their original skins.

dragon

Russ,

I dunno, I assume he would try and then sell them for a premium, unless he would just dip them or something. Some of those pieces were REALLY pretty though so I assume he was doing it intentionally and then selling them.......this was years ago though, don't know if he still does it.


Dragon

airplanenut

so the kicker question- is THIS AT?

braddick

<< <i>so the kicker question- is THIS AT? >>


Not if PCGS or NGC holders them.
If they bodybag? Then they're AT.

Oh:

tsacch

Is there such a thing as ET? Enhanced toning????? I think its not natural, therefore, AT.....imo

paigowjohnny

I have a set of Roosevelt dimes I put together as a kid...30+ years ago. I was home visiting my family last summer and dug out that old Whitman bookshelf album...and sure enough they all toned rather extensively...and most not really attractively.

I currently have a date set of Morgans in a Dansco album...most of them are white BU...nothing big ticket though. Although I don't set them out in the sun, I'm interested to see if anything happens to them over the next few years. Kind you...the intent isn't to tone them, but I wouldn't be disappointed if it progressed attractively...

shirohniichan

Some coins were destined for nice toning. I have two Canadian silver dollars from 1971 and 1973 that were packaged in cases that had a special foam insert. In the right conditions the foam caused the coins to tone in deep reds, blues, and greens (braddick saw them a few months back). If PCGS were to slab them, they'd be worth the price of certification (which is $25 for world coins). Too bad they wouldn't bring me $5,200 on Teletrade, even if they were to come back MS-69.

braddick

These Canadian dollars are beautiful coins. Shiroh inspired me.
I've been buying them up as I come across them.
I had them holdered via SEGS (I know... I know... but at the time they were the only game in town willing to place the "reverse side up" in the holder).

Neat coins and somewhat inexpensive for the appeal.

coinguy1

tsacch, you asked/stated :



<< <i>Is there such a thing as ET? Enhanced toning????? I think its not natural, therefore, AT.....imo >>



When I worked at NGC that (enhanced toning or enhanced color) was an expression we sometimes used. Your point leads to some difficult/interesting questions. Among them - if you accelerate or enhance an otherwise natural process, is that necessarily "artificial?

I think it is, but it sure becomes difficult, if not impossible, to draw the line between "natural", "artificial" and "enhanced".

BlueCole

I wouldn't call it enhanced, or artificial, i would call it Accelerated Toning.

And no, i wouldn't call it artifical toning, because you don't use heat or chemicals.


B.

Gilbert

I do wonder if this type of toning is as permanent, as say, toning that looks the same, but has been on a coin for a couple decades.

Anyone considered whether this "enhanced" or "accelerated" toning is more prone to be, or is more easily disturbed (or removed) than that which has taken decades to accumulate?

tsacch

Isnt exposing it to sunlight a source of heat? or something like that.....UV rays perhaps? The chemicals that leach out of the holder are causing it to tone I am assuming...therefore they would appear to be "enhanced" in my eyes. May be darn nice to look at and own, but the ultimate is the body bag test.......i guess????


It is a hard question to answer and the more I learn, the more I get confused. I am really trying to focus on major third party graded toned items. the cdrom lecture was most helpful and I view it now and then just to check it out and review.

I have a wonderful buffalo nickle in a PCGS slab and its getting richer and richer tones by the year......slowly........to me thats natural toning, but it does raise the question..............what chemical/airborne molecules / whatever.......was it subjected to in its lifetime that made it start along the way to toning?

Can natural toning be dipped off? Can AT or ET be dipped off, and if so, does the degree of difficulty removing the toning correlate with the actual age of the toning.

My head is spinning........time for pasta fazoul.

Flash

So a coin that sat in direct sunlight for awhile 100 years ago, before it went into the Benson collection, isn't AT, but one that does 10 years or 5 years or even 6 months ago is? I wouldn't call that AT, I would call it natural toning. The effect of the sunlight on the coin toned it naturally. Unless, of course, it was artificial sunlight.

MastaHanky

I still like my dog hair toning method.



I did that quite by accident. It looks a lot more attractive than the picture suggests. If I were to do it intentionally, I'd probably choose a nicer speicman that didn't already have milky spots, etc.

braddick

Dragon, Take those same cardboard coin holders/folders and let them soak in a mild solution of sulfur and warm water.
Let them airdry in the oven (set at 125) for a couple of hours and THEN place the coins in them and do as you stated above. That'll speed up that process from months to weeks.

ANACONDA

Ah, yes. Just what is "artificial" toning? A very interesting question.

Should the focus of our answer be on the intent of the person who places the coin in a particular place, i.e. storage or the acqusition of color?

Or should it be on the way the coin acquire's it's colors?

Or how long it took the coin to acquire it's color?

Or how the "chemicals" were "applied". (Everything is either an element or a compound, all of which are "chemicals". The "chemicals" in the Whitman folders is what tones them. Coins in a vacuum don't tone unless there are "chemicals" on their surfaces.)

adrian

braddick

"Coins in a vacuum don't tone. . ."
I did that once. I hate that 'whirrilling' sound the coins make when they're being sucked up. Luckily they usually get shot out a couple of seconds later.

dragon

I think the bigger issue is not how long it took or by what means of storage a coin aquired its color, but rather can seasoned experts consistently differentiate the difference between real and fake. My opinion is that in 98% of cases, the answer is yes, and of the 2% remaining, the coin in question usually is not overly attractive in the first place so it really becomes a non issue IMO. The majority of coin doctors IMO apply AT generally to mask a problem coin.

Dragon

nwcs

I think that AT needs to be re-defined:

IT: Intentional Toning
UT: Unintentional Toning
NT: Natural Toning
CT: Chemical Toning
HT: Heat Toning
TT: Tab Toning
OT: Other Toning

I think if we had a set of criteria we could eliminate some of the mystery of toning. Of course, it's not always possible to tell the difference between each of these, but when it is it can be a help.

tsacch

What happened to ET ? That movie mad me fall asleep well.