Morgan Folk - What, if any, is the difference between PCGS' DMPL and NGC's DPL

FC57Coins

As far as the quality of the coins, the depth of mirrors, and of course pricing. Your opinions would be helpful

Thanks

Frank

stman

They both mean the same thing. Pcgs DMPL and NGC DPL.

Deep mirror proof like and Deep proof like.

Does that help any?

FC57Coins

Well - I was looking for more detail - as in - are they comparable where it comes to determining what is a deep mirrored coin, are there price differentials and why - More interested in the buying experiences of folks - whether there is a price difference in these coins between NGC and PCGS and if so why. Thanks

stman

I guess all that detail would be a matter of opinion I think. As I've seen on the other threads as far as pcgs and ngc. I stay out of these.

Placid

I guess I could search thru some auction results if you wanted and compare selling prices.

Dog97

They are par for par on the grading & designations. On the common cheap models NGC is historicaly cheaper than PCGS but on the higher priced coins they are about the same.
In either companiy's slabs just because it says DMPL don't necessarily make it so because there are "just made it" in both slabs.

FC57Coins

Cool - thanks Dog - that's what I was looking for. It seems to me that both services are very comparable in the grading and DMPL department - and yes, I agree with your statement that there are "just maded it" coins from both. I'm having an 1880CC graded by NGC and I couldn't find a population on it - so that started me wondering about whether one service made a big difference over the other in this particular series.

Thanks!

Frank

rkfish

Frank,

I agree with dog97 on his statements except for the high end. If you truely have an interest in DMPL and PL's I would suggest you obtain a bluesheet (reference only) as it list PCGS and NGC MS, PL, DMPL's separately and there can be some huge price differences in PCGS and NGC DMPL's in 65. As you probably already know....you can throw out the sheet for PQ pieces. There are "dogs" (no offense dog97) in both companys holders so as usual "buy the coin"

edit: The DMPL and PL's are only in the 2nd weeks copy of the bluesheet....I think thats right.

FC57Coins

Thanks Steve - another good piece of advice.

I've been concentrating on the common stuff. I've noticed that you can pick up some nice DMPL's for very reasonable prices. Even some lower population coins. It just seemed like the NGC coins were slightly cheaper, but the quality seemed to be there - so I wondered what some of you felt.

Thanks for the advise!

Frank

Dog97

MS 2672, MSPL 409, MSDPL 277
You need to go to NGC's site if you want the pop by grades.

DennisH

In my opinion and personal experience, a substantial percentage of NGC DPLs would not cross at PCGS... my gut-hunch is at least 1/3 of them, and maybe half. With ANACS I'd say it's half or more.

I believe NGC is much more forgiving in two areas that PCGS seems to be seriously anal about:

-- Frost in the mirrored fields, even if it's only around the rims and/or the central devices.
-- Die polishing lines in the fields.

My observations have been that PCGS wants DMPLs to have "watery" like mirrors, with no frost at all, and with only a bare trace of die polishing lines. By comparison, NGC seems to be more impressed by the degree of reflectivity and cameo contrast. They seem to regularly allow some frost at the peripheries, and a lot more die polishing lines.

If you ever want to drive yourself REALLY nuts playing the crossover game at PCGS, try sending in DMPLs from anyone else.

-- Dennis

prooflike

I have to agree with Dennis, the PCGS PL/DMPL requirements(especially depth of mirrors for the entire surfaces of the fields) seem more stringent than those for other grading cos.

michael

this is a great thread!!!!!!!!!

I LOVE THE DOG WITH THE CIGAR WHO IS HE?????????????????????????????????????????????

I KNOW MANY THAT LOOK LIKE HIM BUT ARE NOT PHYSICALLY A DOG........LOL

BUT WITH THE BIG CIAGR NONETHELESS

for me that is a rreally impossible MONSTER controversal question to answer in print i am sorry

so i will say this show me a coin that is certified dmpl pcgs
or dpl ngc AND I WILL tell you the current market price you can get for the coin and then based on the price you will be immediately to tell if the coin is a monster deep mirrored prooflike cameoed coin finest known
or a piece of crap overgraded and over designated in the holder or anything else in between

i know taht is not what you are looking for but it gives you something to think about and food for thought and to to read between the lines so to speak

dmpl coins are a dangerous game if you do not know exactly what you are looking at

sincerely michael

lava

I generally agree with the comments that PCGS is stricter when it comes to grading the DMPL coins, and the PL coins also for that matter, and this is evidenced by comparing the total coins submitted for any particular year/mint with the percentage of those coins that received a DMPL or PL designation. Since this is my specialty, I have to conduct studies like this. PCGS is across the board certifying a lower percentage of coins as DMPL or PL coins than NGC. Of course, it really goes on a coin by coin basis. Some years are just plain difficult to find good mirrors, and NGC seems more sympathetic to that than PCGS, and thus you will see a lot more NGC mirrored coins out there. The 1921-D is a perfect example. If you have one of these in a PCGS holder I'll buy it sight unseen. I can't say that for NGC. Based on these broad generalities, it comes as no surprise than PCGS coins tend to sell for more (or cost more, depending whether you are buying or selling).

As for the other companies, ANACS I think get's it as far as understanding what merits the DMPL and PL designations. The other companies do not, particularly Accucrap, which doesn't seem to differentiate between mirrored surfaces and silver restorers. Sorry to get carried away on one of my favorite topics.

stman

Lava, good to see you post. Haven't seen your posts in some time.

I remember you collected the dmpl and pl.

FC57Coins

Excellent Feedback guys - this is exactly the information I was looking for.

Thanks!

Frank

PS - MICHAEL - the picture is that of "Frank the Pug" from the men in Black movies - he's an alien!