PCGS grading procedures

dan1ecu

Does anyone know how many graders must agree on a coin’s grade at PCGS before they will slab it? What happens if the graders can’t come to a consensus? Does anyone have an opinion regarding their accuracy? Would you say that they get it right 99.9% of the time? Some are of the opinion that PCGS undergrades in certain cases. Could this be self-serving on their part? Maybe it’s to their advantage to be known as the strictest graders, but being too tight (to the point of being inaccurate) is just as bad as being too lenient, isn’t it?

Dan

kranky

Three graders grade the coin independently of each other and then a finalizer blesses the grade. The finalizer has the ultimate say.

Lenient isn't as good as strict, because lenient grading gives no incentive to crack out and resubmit.

JJacks

99.9% of the time? I doubt that very much! Grading is an inexact science that even 2 expert graders looking at the same coin who both specialize in that area don't always agree on. To one guy it is a high end 64, to the other, a just makes it 65. Neither is wrong per say, it's just that only 1 number can be put on a slab.

I do also wonder though what happens in this scenario.:
Grader 1 : MS64
Grader 2 : MS65
Grader 3 : MS65

Do they give the MS65 grade to the finalizer, or does he then come in with his own grade which is the final. What if the finalizer also says 65, but the 64 guy is certain and says "No way" is that coin a 65. What if one grader is always a point below the other 2? Do they work it out somehow?

JJacks

BAJJERFAN

The finalizer I think either agrees with or disagrees with the grade. If all the graders say its a 64 and the finalizer agrees then I think the grade stands even if he thinks its a 65 or even a 63. If there is a wide discrepancy then I suppose they start over or powwow.

dakra

START:
Well... "Bill" the new guy they hired watches an hour long movie on grading, he looks at several slabs that have already been graded and then he reads a bunch of material on grading. They place him in a room in which he gets a bunch of coins to grade. He jots down the grade and then "Tom" who has been grading coins since he was 16 will review what Bill has given each coin. "Tom" of course does not agree with three of the coins "Bill" graded and he shows "Bill" why he was not correct in grading the coin. This process goes on for "Bill's" 90 day probationary period and If "Bill" does not have a strong grasp on grading at that point... "Bill" loses his job, GOTO FIRED. "Mike" is then hired... GOTO START. ELSE "Bill" grasps the concept GOTO HIRED
FIRED: END
HIRED: Bill continues to grade coins.

-David

prooflike

I thought it only went to the third grader if the first 2 did not agree??

mrdq

no it STARTS at a third grader and ends at a 6th grader and the teacher puts it in the slabbie machine.


tom

lincolnSence

Bill - I'm going to assume that you were kidding on your post and recommend that you select the wink emotion to let us in on the joke. If you weren't kidding then you are a jackass. Why waste our time? What do you collect anyway? I'm trying to determine which series of collectors has the lowest IQ.

dbldie55

Anyone here actually know a grader? My dealer was a grader there, and tells a little different story of the process from when he graded for PCGS.

Cam40

I wonder what the turn-over-rate is for a grader of a top 3rd party service.How long does the average grader keep his job.

And whats the average salary for a `big-time` grader.

gmarguli

According to PCGS:

Grader 1 grades coin.
Grader 2 grades coin.

If 1 & 2 match then coin gets sealed and finalizer confirms grade.

If 1 & 2 don't match then the coin goes to grader 3.

Grader 3 will almost always agree with either grader 1 or 2. If not finalizer looks at coin and renders grade.

That's the PCGS story and they are sticking to it.

Placid

Here is a picture of a pcgs coin grader at work from the pcgs site. Notice something odd about his hands?

dbldie55

They have never wore gloves. My dealer told me the grader that sat next to him took every coin out of the flip by grabbing the coin between his fingers (on the heads and tails part). Fingerprinted every one. This has bee quite a while since he worked there, but if you have a coin graded "back when" and it has finger prints you now know one possible source.

As for today, he believes it is the person doing the holdering, he thinks they use their thumb to push the coin into the washer.

gmarguli

They need to update that photo. My watch has more computing power than the computer he is sitting in front of.

jtryka

<< <i>Bill - I'm going to assume that you were kidding on your post and recommend that you select the wink emotion to let us in on the joke. If you weren't kidding then you are a jackass. Why waste our time? >>



lincolnSence, who are you addressing? Maybe I missed it, but the only "Bill" I found was an imaginary/hypothetical character in David's post. Perhaps you should start addressing forum members rather than their illustrations.



<< <i>What do you collect anyway? I'm trying to determine which series of collectors has the lowest IQ. >>



I think you just put to rest in my mind the question of just how big an arrogant jackass you really are. To bring IQ into this is just completely moronic, as IQ has very little to do with how much you actually know. I'm sure my IQ is some number that some may find important, but I am here to learn more like everyone else, except of course for those insecure enough to make comments like yours. My IQ has not changed much since I was in 3rd grade, but thankfully I have learned a great deal since then, about a variety of topics. Unfortunately it seems you and I don't share that experience.

lincolnSence

jtryka - why is it that when someone makes a mockery of a thread like dakra does do you not jump all over it? Then when someone does ask why, do you then come to his aid? Maybe jackass was a bit to much. Am I the only one tired of the constant PCGS bashing?

keets

in this corner we have, representing all the cent collectors, liiiiiiiiiincolnseeeeeeeeense!!

.....and in this corner, all the way from portland in the beautiful state of orrrrrreeegon, jumpin' jeffrey tryyyyyyyykkkaa!!!! tryka!

the two will now return to their respective corners and come out at the bell. good luck to you both!!

al h.

its4real

Ooops...I must be in the wrong place. Could someone tell me where the U.S. Coin forum is? I didn't mean to stumble in on a boxing match...sorry

MadMarty

Sometimes, I think PCGS has a big dart board full of numbers. The grader throws the dart. There is your grade. You think your sending in a 69DCAM and you get a 66CAM, it was just a bad throw on the graders part...

dakra

Lincoln,
Take a deep breath... Here are the attributes I left out.....

Now when you say Jackass do you mean Donkey:


Or the Jackass Penquin:



-Dave

airplanenut

no one fully mentioned the step where the fingerprint is added...

jtryka

<< <i>jtryka - why is it that when someone makes a mockery of a thread like dakra does do you not jump all over it? Then when someone does ask why, do you then come to his aid? Maybe jackass was a bit to much. Am I the only one tired of the constant PCGS bashing? >>


1. Perhaps David was making a mockery of the thread, but any idiot that can read could tell his post was mere satire and should be enjoyed as such. Personally, I usually have no problem with people making a mockery of things, it's their right to do so, and if I think it makes them sound foolish, so be it. Most of the time I just ignore it.
2. Asking why is one thing, and I am all for people asking questions and learning from one another. It's how people grow in knowledge. When people like yourself "ask" it sounds suspiciously like a personal attack. If you had actually asked politely for clarification, I would have ignored it, but by implying David was a jackass with a low IQ as you did in your "question" I felt compelled to come to his aid (though I'm sure he can defend himself just fine).

mrdq

my post was pretty stupid and no one called ME a jackass... NO ONE LOVES ME!


sad tom

dakra

Mrdq... Hey Jackass!

It's actually funny... a few years ago, when my friends and I would go to the local tavern (Right around the time of the "Wazzzup" commercials) Whenever one of us would walk in, everyone would shout "(((HEY JACKASS!!)))" and when leaving... "See ya, JACKASS". Needless to say, in some strange way, "Jackass" is/was a term of endearment.

See ya, Jackass!

-David

lincolnSence

I give up. You all get ....lets see....a 64. But since you all took the time I'm also going to add the *.

crito

I'm trying to determine which series of collectors has the lowest IQ

I've heard it's 2 1/2 dollar gold piece collectors

... but being too tight (to the point of being inaccurate) is just as bad as being too lenient, isn’t it?

I dunno, I used to think that way. I've never gotten a complaint or a return from selling a slightly undergraded PCGS coin, however. What really blows is when ICG or ANACS undergrades your coin -2 points, you get PCGS money -3 instead of the usual -1 for holder bias. People just assume the coin's overgraded, whether it really is or not, and they bid that way.

Gilbert

I've READ that grader number 1's opinion is almost never changed. In a sense, I can understand that, for, why should a "grader" be on the payroll if PCGS isn't going to respect his/her opinion (and essentially, that's what a grade is.) For example, Grader 1 calls the coin MS-62, then #2 and #3 agree that it is an uncirculated coin and it isn't a 65. There doesn't appear to be the time or desire to "quibble" over a point or two UNLESS, there is a significant change in DOLLAR VALUE or CATEGORY (circ v. unc; average v. gem v. superb gem, etc.)

So, the claim of consensus grading is TECHNICALLY accurate, and the finalizer makes sure that the end product is appropriate for release (coin is what slab says, no debris present , end-product is presentable for return and no huge (cost wise) mistakes have been made.


Even as an icon it's painful to see Ol' Glory displayed this way. Is there anything I can do to convince you to flip it, or remove it?

Bear

Mrdq - If we started calling every jackass on this Forum a jackass, well there wouldnt be time to do anything else all day. Jackass Bear

MikeB

That's an interesting picture, Placid. It looks like the computer is older than the coin.

.B ekiM