trade dollar chopmarks?

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 12:11PM

I have a 1876 cc trade dollar and i am wondering if that thing on the left side is a hole or a chopmark? When i use a glass i think i can see a chopmark like symbol on the bottom of the hole. any info would be nice.

Also what would the grade and value of this coin including the chopmarks/hole

sumnom · August 28, 2002 12:16PM

Can you give us a better look at the hole/chopmark?

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 12:24PM

here it is, its the best i can get

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 12:33PM

ttt

shirohniichan · August 28, 2002 12:34PM

It's known as a test mark. Chopmarks are usually Chinese characters or geometric shapes. Test marks are holes or cuts to see if the coin is plated.

Can you show a scan of the reverse?

LucyBop · August 28, 2002 12:38PM

I am no expert to say the least on Chopped Marked trades, but, I was at a coin store in Santa Fe New Mexico, and this dealer had some cool chopmarks that really got Lucys attention. It was obviously a Chinese character punched in the coin. From what I saw, your pic doesn't look like this dealers chopmarked coins......

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 12:42PM

here is the rev.

sumnom · August 28, 2002 12:54PM

Pardon me for asking but is this counterfeit?

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 12:56PM

I hope its not, i didn't buy it as a counterfit
i bought it from someone from my local coin club

Placid · August 28, 2002 12:57PM

1876cc is a good one. Even altered you should be able to get over $100 for it.

sumnom · August 28, 2002 1:04PM

I am not a Trade Dollar expert so you should take whatever I say with a few tons of salt. I was just comparing the reverse scan you provided with the picture of the Trade Dollar in the Red Book. The spacing and placement of the legends varies (notice the location of the first T in "STATES" in relation to the banner bearing E Pluribus Unum), the olive branch looks different ( notice the upward pointing leaves under the wing), and the left wing in the red book specimen covers half the head of the top arrow. Maybe there are varieties?

Really, Shironiichan is the resident Trade Dollar expert. He could tell you more. Let's see what he says.

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 1:13PM

The guy i bought it from told me that this obv/rev combo with chopmarks is very rare because??? He read it in one of the books he has. He told me the value of this combo is worth $650.00 in au. I bought it as an au with chopmarks what do you think? What do you think it's worth in the real world $......?

Placid · August 28, 2002 1:33PM

Here is a link with some information on the subject.

Link

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 1:47PM

After reading the info at the site i will call the obv- T1 and the rev-T2
I don't know if the chopmarks are rare ones or not there are 4 on the obv and 1 on the rev if you want i could scan closeups of some of them.

sumnom · August 28, 2002 1:54PM

Yes, there are indeed varities for the 1876CC. That is good. Close-ups of the chop marks would be interesting. Bring them on!

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 2:10PM

These are the obv chopmarks if you want to look at them. If you know what they are it would be kind of cool to find out.

shirohniichan · August 28, 2002 2:32PM

I can't see the scan of the reverse. Did you remove the attachment?

Chopmark number one is "kichi," meaning "good luck."

Chopmark number two is "go," meaning "five."

Chopmark number three is "den," meaning "rice field."

Sorry, I only know the Japanese pronunciation for the Chinese characters. I couldn't tell what the other two were.

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 2:34PM

i think this is the reverse pic

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 2:35PM

One more try

shirohniichan · August 28, 2002 2:37PM

This isn't the same one with the test mark (drill mark) on the obverse, is it?

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 2:38PM

Yes it is, I know that because their is only 1 trade dollar in this house

shirohniichan · August 28, 2002 2:41PM

Get a loupe and look on the reverse below the eagle for doubling. The double-die reverse is the most common type I reverse used.

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 2:45PM

There might be some doubling inside the left claw other than that i don't see any

shirohniichan · August 28, 2002 2:48PM

In that case you have the scarcer of the two.

But the $650 price estimate sounds really high, unless the fellow coin club member meant for an unchopped coin in nice AU. If the one you have isn't cleaned, I'd say it's probably worth $175 or so retail.

mbbiker · August 28, 2002 2:50PM

one more dumb question how can you tell if a trade dollar has been cleaned?

shirohniichan · August 28, 2002 2:58PM

Take a loupe and look for hairlines. If you see lots of fine lines running in the same direction, it shows that the coin has been wiped. There are lots of ways to clean a coin. Whizzed coins will have an unnatural shine to them and a halo effect around the letters and devices. Learning to see signs of doctoring is very important for anyone buying any coins, whether raw or certified.

sumnom · August 28, 2002 4:30PM

Here are the Chinese pronounciations (in pinyin):

1) ji
2) wu
3) tian
4) I dunno, can't read it.
5) possibly si (meaning "four") or maybe mu (meaning "eye")

Of course, these are likely abbreviations so I would not assume that these characters actually mean the defininitions that Shiro and I have provided.

trade dollar chopmarks?

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