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How much is the story worth?

Original coins out of old collections generally bring more money than coins that have made the rounds from dealer to dealer over the past few years. So what is the premium?

Earlier this year I bought original mint bags of 1960 Canadian coins because I wanted a mint-sealed bag for a research project I'm doing on Canadian dollars. I bought the other silver coins because they came from the same estate. I don't think I paid much of a premium (if any), but the story was great. Supposedly a collector bought $100 face mint-sealed bags from a bank (I think it was the bank of Montreal) closest to him. He lived in upstate New York and drove across the border every year to pick up $100 bags of each denomination from the mid 1950's until he died in 1966. The son, who inherited the estate, is now in his 90's and has poor health. His family is selling off everything bit by bit as they go through his possessions. Supposedly there were steel boxes full of unc bags. The dealer who sold the bags to me said they haven't called him lately about the 1 cent and 5 cent bags I want to complete the set, and he doesn't want to bother them until they call.

I guess the only way to make sure the coins haven't been jostled around and banged up would be to open the bags, but that would spoil their mint-sealed state. image
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Obscurum per obscurius

Comments

  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    i say keep em bagged! such originality is imo extremely rare and underrated. much rarer than dipped silver in plastic.

    K S
  • I do not understand how people can buy mintsealed bags and not open them to see what's there. I can't even wait until I'm out of the store before I check my change. The suspense would give me a stroke. image
  • MacCoinMacCoin Posts: 2,544 ✭✭
    I pick up rolls of new dollars, halves, and state quarters from the bank and am lucky if I get out of the parking lot before I have them opened.
    image


    I hate it when you see my post before I can edit the spelling.

    Always looking for nice type coins

    my local dealer
  • michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭
    for me a story is not worth much if anything it doesnot make me want to buy it or not or make me want to pay more or less. i guess the main overriding point is show me the money!! or if you do not get thst statement then the proof is in the pudding i do not care if an underage worker made it or elvis!............. now if there is a great coin deal like the bags all i need to know is to show me the mint sealed bag and if it is within the scope of my speciality i can take a look with my own eyes and based on my experience buy or pass based on my own accessments

    if i do buy i must admit i like to hear the story but it adds nothing to my process if i want to buy the item or not but if i want to sell the bag after i bought it and IF i am on ebay (which i am not) and i want to tell tall tails to hype proprespective buyers (which i would not do) i guess the story is great!! and i have seen many things sell in the ladt 38 years all based on advertisements hype whatever you call it! and i guess that is okie but just remember let the buyer beware let all coins you buy stand on their own merits slabbed and story not included
    if not then me thinks you MIGHT be paying too much.................................

    sincerely michael

  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭
    I agree with Michael.

    Now if the coins in question were an original 19th century proof set, I might pay more for an original matched set (If I collected proofs). Could you imagine finding a pristine set with documentation from an old collector? Scher showed me a matched 1862 proof set he bought. If it came with documentation as to when the original collector bought it from the Mint and other details, it would appear more valuable to me. Even better, could you imagine finding one from an ancestor (e.g. great-great-great grandfather)?

    There comes a time when the value of the coins in question is determined by sentimental attachment, also. If I were to find that one of my great-grandfathers kept a silver dollar from when he arrived in San Francisco in 1893, I'd pay a lot more for it than I would for one from someone else's collection.
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    Obscurum per obscurius


  • << <i>Now if the coins in question were an original 19th century proof set, I might pay more for an original matched set (If I collected proofs). Could you imagine finding a pristine set with documentation from an old collector? >>



    The difficulty can sometimes be keeping that documentation. About ten years back there was a major auction house that got a long run of original proof sets from about the 1860's to the 1890's consigned to one of their sales. All of the sets were still in their original holders and wrappings from the mint. After the sale the new owners requested the original holders to keep the sets all original only to find that the auction house had trashed the holders. A similar thing happened with a large cent set out of a major colletion. These were well known coins the pedigree on many of which could be traced back to the 1870's. These coins had gone through many famous collections and each step of the way the colletors had kept the previous collectors flips with their hand written notes. After the auction the eacer's were shocked that all they received were the coin in a vinyl auction flip. When they asked about what had happened to all the old flips they were told that the auction house had thrown them away. One hundred years of continuing documentation just tosed in the trash.

    Two final thoughts about pristine sets. The King of Siam set is now an empty case with same coins in generic plastic slabs. And does anyone know whatever happened to the Pitman original 1843 cased proof set with the original documentation from the mint including the itemized bill for the coins and the reciept from the firm that made the case? Is it still intact or has it been broken up?
  • If it can't be documented/proved - nothing. If it can be documented, like PCGS coins with pedigrees on the holder, then they will go for a premium. Coins pedigreed from the Garrett collection, Eliasberg, or Pitman, sell for a lot more than coins with no pedigree. You may say a coin was in a single family's possession for 100 years (bought original from the mint), but unless there's some way to document or prove it, it doesn't mean a thing.

    Take a look at antiques for a moment. A pocket watch that supposedly belonged to a past president, that is photographed/inscribed, and that has a good, traceable story to it, is worth a lot more. If anybody watches the "Antiques Roadshow", you will see items that have great stories, but no proof. They are good as family heirlooms, but you can't sell them with that story. Proof/documentation is everything.

    I would pay extra for a coin of historical significance if it had documented proof. Otherwise, I would treat it as just a regular coin.
    That's the way I would look at it.
    "Buy the coin, not the holder"

    Proof Dime Registry Set
  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭
    About ten years back there was a major auction house that got a long run of original proof sets from about the 1860's to the 1890's consigned to one of their sales. All of the sets were still in their original holders and wrappings from the mint. After the sale the new owners requested the original holders to keep the sets all original only to find that the auction house had trashed the holders. A similar thing happened with a large cent set out of a major colletion. These were well known coins the pedigree on many of which could be traced back to the 1870's. These coins had gone through many famous collections and each step of the way the colletors had kept the previous collectors flips with their hand written notes. After the auction the eacer's were shocked that all they received were the coin in a vinyl auction flip. When they asked about what had happened to all the old flips they were told that the auction house had thrown them away. One hundred years of continuing documentation just tosed in the trash.

    If a seller trashed all the documentation and holders I asked them to keep with the sets, I'd be so pissed I couldn't sleep for weeks!

    My dream is to find an old set with original Mint receipt. In years when several proof varieties were struck, establishing a date for a later variety could be really interesting. For example, in the trade dollar series I'd like to know when the first 1876 II/II's were sold. I know Breen estimates around September of that year, but wouldn't it be interesting to find out one had been sold earlier than that?
    image
    Obscurum per obscurius

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