IHC - Cleaned or not?!?

ccrdragon

Question for all of you IHC collectors - take a look at this coin :

Link

Do you think this coin is original or has it been dipped? To me, the color looks too orange, but that could just be the picture...

IndianHeadMan

I am a novice at grading, but I think it's a good coin. IT's hard to tell because the pic isn't very good. His feedback is OK. Does he have a return policy? IF so take a chance at a resonable price.

dorkkarl

looks like a nice original, although the camera colors look skewed

Pushkin

The coin looks OK from the picture, but copper/bronze can be very deceptive. I would never assume that a coin is high grade (MS64 or higher) Red unless I saw the coin (and you need a lot of experience to determine the designation of Red copper) or it was in a top tier slab. The Red designation commands a significant premium in all years, so don't be disappointed if it were to go to PCGS or NGC and come back Red/Brown. I am ALWAYS very skeptical or raw coins being advertised as Red. My rule of the thumb is to never pay more than RB (Red/Brown) prices unless the coin is being sold by a dealer that I ABSOLUTELY trust. Also, there should be some kind or guarantee that the coin will grade Red if you are paying Red prices.

UncleJoe

Very hard to tell from a scan. The color looks OK but I would be concerned this coin is AU.

On my monitor there looks like areas of rub and broken luster.

Joe.

toothpuller

You have to be pretty brave to buy a supposedly high grade raw IHC on eBay. The color looks OK to me, but I've been burned sending to PCGS a real nice raw eBay coin I bought from a reputable dealer that had similar color. Toms usually encloses his coins in his own slabs, TCTS and charges PCGS prices. Maybe he has given up on that. Don't pay more than 64RB pinksheet which is $175. Assume PCGS will bag it for questionable color. If you are buying it for a nice Dansco set then go for it.

Pushkin

The only thing that might indicate AU is if the area between the 2nd and 3rd diamond and the hair below it is wear, or the hair area below the B in "LIBERTY" is wear. However, the lack of any obvious marks, small dings or very small scratches would tend to favor the coin being MS. Again, copper is deceptive. Looks like a nice coin, but BEWARE the color designation - that's where you can really lose money on copper.

I would guess a raw MS64 RD is about a $380 coin
MS64 RB $140
AU55 $20

Anyhow, these just are my "guesstimates".

prooflike

Color looks good. Didn't read if the selelr had a return policy, but if you get it, check for hairlines which you wouldn't see in the photo. Doesn't look cleaned or dipped from the photo, but hat can easily be disguised through lighting and photo angle. Good luck.

shylock

The background of the Lincoln they're selling is white, while this and the other coins I checked is an orangy white that makes me wonder if the color is accurate.

Orange isn't an unusual tone for gem IHs but it should have some life to it. Once copper's been dipped it never reflects light the same way, losing it's skin & natural flow lines. Most wind up with a flat "too clean" look. It's also unusual to find unplayed with IHs from the mid 80s thru early 90s without any trace of carbon, a period plagued by spots. Not sure what that is above the E of ONE, but the white toning spot on the reverse is unusual and makes me think its origin is chemically induced.

I'm a skeptic about raw high grade Ebay IHs and probably the wrong guy to ask.

Pushkin

Shylock,

Good point on the background and the "life". Unfortunately, I've seen very few Web photographs that even come close to showing "life" and the accuate look of a Red or Red/Brown coin. Even the top FE/IHC dealer's coins usually look washed out on the Internet. Maybe your experience is different?

Pushkin

ccrdragon

Thanks for the input folks!

I tried $145 on the auction and didn't pass the reserve, so I'm outta this one.

shylock

Pushkin -- some are better than others, and I'd always preface any comment about a copper coin with that 'image accuracy problem' you mentioned. It's hard to describe but I think you can learn to read the mediocre images after you look at a lot of them -- I think Dog calls this "decyphering". Forget about the poor images, and this only applies to RD coins. If I can't read any "life" into an image I stay away unless it's a dealer who's apprasial & return policy I trust.

MosesBlack

Not cleaned, Not MS either

shylock

In my wildest dreams I can't imagine an AU 1892 this light in tone and spot free unless it were also cleaned. Even most of the MS examples are mellowed to a deeper tone. Looks like a 64/65 type strike, just a little weak in the shield, and no obvious contact or wear. The type of coin that could sell for hundreds more if it could pass the better grading services.

IrishMike

It has that flat look and telltale coloring that suggests that it has been chemically cleaned. No way I would spend much money for it without seeing it in my hand.