Help with my degrading grading

MartyF

Hello All,
I'm a newbie to this forum but have been collecting for 30+ years. I am by no means an expert. I've been lurking around here for about a month now, and THOUGHT I was getting it in regard to proper grading, etc. I have numerous Redbooks from various years and the most recent Blackbook and thought I was on the right track. Based on the posts I have seen, and the grades that are being given to particular coins, I now think my grading abilities are way off. Below I have placed 4 links to 2 1886 Morgans I have. I believe coin #1 is an MS-60 and coin #2 is an MS-61. I base these grades on the amount of bag damage each has received. Coin #1, to me, has more coin dings than #2. They both have great luster but are diminished by the amount of "dings". If someone would let me know there opinions on the grades as well as how they came to this conclusion, I would appreciate it. Also, any additional reference material you could recommend would also be appreciated.....thanks

Morgan1OBV
Morgan1REV
Morgan2OBV
Morgan2REV

airplanenut

They're both 60-62, depending on how the graders are feeling that day.

MartyF

Thanks airplanenut......

TomB

It's really tough to grade from a scan, however, it looks like coin #2 may have been wiped or otherwise cleaned.

MartyF

Thanks TomB,
And is your cleaning of coin#2 based on the discolorization around the left wing and around the words STATES and IN GOD WE TRUST on the obverse???

TomB

Well, the reverse does look a little odd in terms of overall color but that could simply be do to your lighting conditions. What made me think it could be cleaned is that there appear to be parallel lines running along both the obverse and reverse and they don't look like die polish.

Dog97

Marty you're pretty close on #1 but #2 is circulated and probably cleaned. You can tell it's circulated because the color & luster is different color in the protected areas between the letters and the design elements. The scratches may or may not be cause from cleaning, can't tell from the scan. Maybe it was in somebodys pocket with dirt, grit, car keys etc but a grading company wouldn't call it MS if they even slabbed it. From a technical standpoint your applied numerical grades are correct for a true MS coin.

MartyF

<DIV>Thanks TomB,
The lighting is definitely poor.....it's late here and I didn't want to turn on the photo lights and just used incandescent. Anyway, looking at the coin again through an 8x loupe, I don't see the lines but I definitely see discolorization around the wing and the top letters on the reverse. Maybe because the letters are raised and the bag and other coins couldn't hit this area???? Just a thought......thanks for your input....</DIV>

MartyF

Thanks Dog,
TomB also thinks the #2 coin is cleaned. Comparing the 2 coins again under an 8x loupe, certainly makes me question coin #2. Both the reverse and the obverse appear to show a haze around the letters and at the top of the cap on the obv....thanks for your input dog....I appreciate it...

dorkkarl

ms-63, ms-60 (probably wiped). it looks liek your using those old capitol plastic holders, which let the coins rattle around too much imo.

bottom line on grades, ask yourself "do i like the coin?" if the answer is yes, then the grade is right on.

K S

MacCoin

HI Marty
Nice scans I wish I could get a scan that good. Welcome to the board. I think #1 may go MS60 but # 2 a clean EF at best.

JD

Are these scans are digital pictures? I'd say both are MS60-61's.

nwcs

I would give MS-61 to each. But they could easily be AU-58.

nwcs

Yeah, you guys are right. Now that I look more closely, #2 is cleaned. Probably AU cleaned.

MartyF

dorkkarl:
Most of my coins are in 2x2 flips....the capsules came with a set of tubes I bought awhile back....I thought I'd try them out....and your right, they do rattle around in them....thanks for the insight..

maccoin:
The pics were taken with a Sony DCR-PC110 with a 2x lens....I shot them on the fly last night so the lighting was bad....thanks....

jd:
see above...

Based on your feedback, it seems I was close on #1....the cleaned #2 I initially did not notice...does anyone have, or no of some material I could read up on how to detect cleaning, etc.....other than the obvious scratching associated with wire brushes, brillo, etc....(I actually have a couple of coins that look like they were scrubbed with a wire brush)....thanks for all your help....

nwcs

The ANA has some videos on coin grading and counterfeit detection and artificial toning that are helpful.

coinnerd

Number 2 does have what looks like cleaning lines.

mnmcoin

Coin #1 looks new, but could easily go AU58 at PCGS or NGC. Coin #2 looks used and from the picture heavily cleaned from the color and the hairlines, probably not enough luster to go AU and would net out at around EF45.

Good scans by the way.

morris <><

MartyF

nwcs:
Thanks for the info....looks like I should join the ANA....the education from the library itself is worth far more than the small membership fee....

mnmcoin:
Thanks for the input.....the pics are actually low light digital photos....in real life, the coins actually have a much higher luster than captured by the photos....or so it would seem to me....in the future, I will try to post better photos....

Thanks for everyone's help....