QUERY- Are some slabbed MONSTER toned Morgans too good to be true??

jamesfsm

I have bought a number of different "looks" of the monster toned Morgans, all slabbed by the Big Boys. My query is this. There are a number of different types of bag-toned coins- crescents from coins laying atop another and full surface coloration from a coin laying against the bag are two. It seems that many of the newer ones coming on the market are incredibly outrageous and hard to believe to be "naturally" toned. Is it possible or likely that alot of these coins are "made" now that there is a big market for them??

It just seems that what was "outrageous" in a 1986-1990 PCGS slab era is now lukewarm milque toast. Tell me I'm wrong but so many of the "hottest" monsters never showed up during the first 10 years of slabs. Why would so many $2,000+++ coins remain raw so long? Or, were they white $50 coins until recently?

nwcs

Yes, artificial toning is definitely a factor in some of the coins. As you said, coloration can happen in zillions of different ways, but as long as color is attractive in a coin there will be people who will color coins.

As for why there might be more monsters now, it's hard to say. Maybe those that were slabbed in the early days have not been re-entered the marketplace. Or maybe they have been reholdered. Or maybe people waited to see how the slab marketplace was going to work. There are just as many legitimate reasons as illegitimate.

But I'm sure some AT coins are in holders, but probably not as much in PCGS ones compared to the raw marketplace.

jamesfsm

I guess the point I was really trying to make is the intensity and artistic style of the toning has really peaked in recent years. Is that because new original coins are coming to the market or because artificial toning is now more profitable?

ArtR

jamesfsm
They showed up, but were put into collections, and remained there. Some collectors are now taking advantage of this market and selling off some if not all of their coins.


<< <i>Why would so many $2,000+++ coins remain raw so long? >>


There are still a lot of toned collectors who couldn't care less about grading services and their holders, and are perfectly happy to place coins in Capitol Plastics or other suitable holders. When the time comes for them to sell they will normally have the coins graded by PCGS, NGC or who ever. Why because they will sell at a higher level. There are many people out there who won't touch a coin raw for $1000.00 but will pay $2000.00 for the same coin in a third party holder.
I need to add this. About a month or so ago I got a chance to look at a collection of about 100 toned Morgans. All of the coins came from the Continental Bank hoard. All were very high grade and a large majority were Monster tone, really incredible coins. All of these Morgans are in Capitol Plastics Holders, and the owner said that he has no intention of submitting any for 3rd party grading.

gsaguy

James,

ArtR is right on the money!

I was buying MONSTER toned dollars back in the mid-80's and they looked no different then than they do now. The only difference today is that I've got to pay MUCH more when I find them.

True monsters rarely hit the market and when they do, they're gone in a heartbeat. And as ArtR states, they go into collections and don't come out for a long period of time. Only really big bucks will entice them out.

Last weekend I looked at a small, but high quality, group of toned Morgans in Texas. Most of them were housed in a captial plastics holders. The owner had purchased the coins during the mid to late 80's and never bothered to have them certified. Even the few certified pieces he had were in old holders. For him, and many other toned dollar collectors, there's just no point in hearing what PCGS or NGC thinks the coin might grade. For one thing, that grade has NOTHING to do with the price of the coin.

In the thousands of certified toned coins I've handled, there have been only a few that I questioned the toning. And even on those I've typically deteremined them to be original after careful examination. I personally believe that very few artifically toned Morgans are found in the holders of the two major grading services.

Finally, I've put away about 400 toned GSA coins since the mid 80's and it's amazing the variety of colors and patterns of original bag toning that exists. These coins have taught me a lot.

GSAGUY

gmarguli

I'd be willing to bet that there are more AT Morgans in PCGS/NGC slabs than all the other AT coins in slabs combined. The services seem much more relaxed on the toning of Morgans than other coins.

About 16 months ago there was a few months period where I was seeing a LOT of Morgans I'd consider AT in slabs.But hey, the grading gods passed judgement on the coins so that's all that should matter.


Maybe they were all real and the market snapped them up? Maybe they were fake and the grading services wised up and/or bought them from the market?

RotatedRainbows

ArtR & gsaguy pretty much covered all the bases but I would add that people who collect TRUE high quality toned coins are generally more passionate about their collections and tend to hold onto them longer then many collectors so the pieces will stay with them till the end. I also have many pieces that I bought raw in the eighties (or broke out of old holders when I bought them) and last year decided to have them slabbed to help protect my heirs from getting short changed if anything ever happened to me and they had to sell them. Also I believe the internet has made it easier for more people to see what is really available when it comes to high quality toned coins (at least when it comes to rainbow morgans) so many pieces that you could never see available at the average show will appear somewhere on the net.