Anna has come home!!!!!!
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'll try to be nice, no need to stir things up again. check out the before and after scans and tell me, doesn't she just look so much better in blue!! 
well, i think she does. it's an interesting point to me that the coin was owned by four people in the course of a year. i guess it's tuff to hold onto a "better than the average 66DMPL that would be a 67 if it weren't for the booger" coin.
seems to me that in a 66 holder poor little Anna would be a regular gypsy!! now that she's somehow ended up in a 65 holder and wants to settle down and be a homebody PCGS appears to have other plans. i've been asked to please send her on another trip to sunny Cala-for-nyaaa cause rick m. is on vacation and she was mistakenly shipped home without a cursory assessment by him for the grade guarantee price difference. after this trip the old gal should apply for frequent flyer miles!!!
maybe some of you veteran (sic) members can help out on this. my feeling is we're loooking at a buyback with a check to be issued. any personal experience out there? and at the same time, what do you think the value will be based on. i find it odd that PCGS has a price guide online and that they wouldn't somehow be using that. they have a long winded explanation for how they arrive at what are high prices that don't seem to change much. very strange. anyhow, my saga continues.
just for fun let's do a little informal poll. do you think lovely Anna looks better in green or in blue?? i think the blue really suits her!! don't mistake this for any kind of a grade related thing either, cause it's already
been established in the other threads about this coin that 99% of us are idiots at this type of thing, so i'm just wondering about the color!!
al h.
well, i think she does. it's an interesting point to me that the coin was owned by four people in the course of a year. i guess it's tuff to hold onto a "better than the average 66DMPL that would be a 67 if it weren't for the booger" coin. seems to me that in a 66 holder poor little Anna would be a regular gypsy!! now that she's somehow ended up in a 65 holder and wants to settle down and be a homebody PCGS appears to have other plans. i've been asked to please send her on another trip to sunny Cala-for-nyaaa cause rick m. is on vacation and she was mistakenly shipped home without a cursory assessment by him for the grade guarantee price difference. after this trip the old gal should apply for frequent flyer miles!!!
maybe some of you veteran (sic) members can help out on this. my feeling is we're loooking at a buyback with a check to be issued. any personal experience out there? and at the same time, what do you think the value will be based on. i find it odd that PCGS has a price guide online and that they wouldn't somehow be using that. they have a long winded explanation for how they arrive at what are high prices that don't seem to change much. very strange. anyhow, my saga continues.
just for fun let's do a little informal poll. do you think lovely Anna looks better in green or in blue?? i think the blue really suits her!! don't mistake this for any kind of a grade related thing either, cause it's already
been established in the other threads about this coin that 99% of us are idiots at this type of thing, so i'm just wondering about the color!!
al h.
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Comments
K S
al h.
Still there is something about the green holder I like.
BTW I think that is a nice looking Morgan.
As to price I think coins are like real estate. They are worth what someone will pay. So if the coin was bought recently PCGS will use that price as the value. If the coin was bought some time ago you would need to make a case for value, perhaps by finding some auction prices.
anna bananadanna???
K S
GSAGUY
You did not recieve a call from PCGS BEFORE they sent it back?
Are you sure you sent it back for grade guarantee?(checked the right box?)
<< <i>c'mon karl, a real lady would never parade around on a crowded bourse floor without some kind of a dress on!!! >>
DUDE, i'd take a lady WITHOUT a dress ANY TIME!!!
K S
<< <i>I'll try to be nice, no need to stir things up again. it's an interesting point to me that the coin was owned by four people in the course of a year. i guess it's tuff to hold onto a "better than the average 66DMPL that would be a 67 if it weren't for the booger" coin.
>>
Keets, I thought you said no need to stir things up again?
of course i'm sure about how i submitted it. it seems obvious that PCGS erred by sending the coin back prior to contacting me so they've asked me to return it. their customer service has been very good in this whole thing. the turnaround for the submission was two days which really surprised me.
good call on the backgrounds carl, but that's more of an optical delusion than anything else. all the settings on the canner are the same for both pics with no touch up afterwards. though it looks toned on the rims it's quite white.
al h.
Rick M took care of one problem I had though it took some time, so be patient.
al h.
Me too!!!
Just my opinion.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
I believe she will look better in the blue holder once that check arrives!!! I totally agree with you regarding the long-winded explanation, provided by PCGS, of how a guarantee check value is derived. When you factor in the fact that Collectors Universe owns interests in PCGS dealers, it creates a very large potential for self-dealing and conflict of interest. I also agree that a well published price guide is of little good if the publishing entity refuses to use it themselves. It certainly reaffirms the believe that the values in the price guide are WAY overinflated.
More than you paid plus the 500.00 coin in hand. That would be a nice profit.
It won't happen, but would be nice.
stman
stman
BTW, why the hell would they want the coin back? $20 plus in additional postage for all and to what end? That makes no sense. I've been through the buyback once and they call and say that the Bluesheet on your coin is $2000, less the Bluesheet in the lower grade of $500, and send you a check for $1500 and you can keep the coin. They don't need the coin back to do that. I was told that they always use Bluesheet as the valuation guide.....
<< <i>Both scans show small ticks near a huge hit right in front of the portrait, a white smudge over the head, cameo in the field under Liberty's neck that looks like goiter or maybe the Dr. slipped when painting the cameo on, and a big flat spot over the ear you could land an airplane on. 4 world class collectors & dealers have owned it, and regarded it highly but sold it cheap but. Legend staked their credentials on it and said 99% of you dealers & collectors don't know what you're talking about.............Hmmm...Rick wanting it back sounds like a setup, might end back up in a 66 or 67 holder.
I`m not saying I think the coins`a 66,but..
The "goiter" appears to be die-polishing "leaking" onto the fields.I`ve seen it before on CC`s, especially on the reverse where the wing meets the neck(viewer`s right).
The stike is average to above average for a CC.
You saying you think it`s been artificially Frosted,Dog?
As for PCGS (and Rick) wanting it back, it shouldn`t have been sent out before the submitter was contacted and a "Settlement" reached, chalk it up to the fine Customer Service we all love.
Seriously, does anyone know why there is frosting in the field at the top of the neck and toward the base of Liberty's hair on the right side obverse?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1374842567
I don't know alot about DMPL's but the frosting in the fields really intrigues me.
as you pointed out, the area on the reverse between the eagle's neck and wing is in fact slightly frosted. i beleive that the only place in the whole dal where PCGS dropped the ball is in returning the coin to me without some type of contact. i beleive their explanation that rick. m. is on vacation and that's probably the reason for the SNAFU. they advised me to send it with my next submission on a seperate form with a note attached and that they would cover the P/I. no problems aside from the return goof. the customer service has been good IMO. i'll be sending in some modern proofs next week so i'll piggyback on them and rick should be back in town by then.
regarding jamesfsm and the bluesheet----pricing in 66 is pretty much a matter of auction sales from what i was able to find when i searched at the time of the original purchase. and to that end 1884-CC info was more abundant in same grade/DMPL. the pops are close on the sheets. if their own guide is referenced, it would be $3100 minus $875 but those prices are way outa line if you consider a 65 sells in the range of $400-$550, PQ'ness accepted. i don't object to them wanting the coin in hand to make a determination. my interest and desire is a fair and equitable settlement.
aside from my own personal stake in this, i think it's a topic worthy of discussion since the fact of overgrading and changing standards seem to be a reality. this whole "Anna" brouhaha may lead to some clarification for us all and be helpful for someone else.
al h.
I have NO clue what PCGS is up to with this coin. I NEVER have discussed this coin or anything about it with ANY of the PCGS people. I have never heard of them behaving that way and asking for the coin back (if I read that right).
Flame me all you want. Apparently Keets just has too much negativity to let this whole issue die (yeah, yeah, I'm sure the next thread will be how I want to bury this issue).....
I wish I could publically berate people everytime I get a down grade! The sad part is, if resubmitted, the coin probably WILL go back in a PCGS 66DMPL holder. But note: I spoke to SEVERAL major COMPETENT (successful crackout dealers) dealers today, they all said that coins they cracked out of PCGS holders recently and one or two came back in a lower grade, and I even heard of one body bag. This is the real world, with subjective grading. All of them plan on resubmitting the coins. I doubt they bought OVERGRADED coins!
I've already committed the worst sin which was to make comments concerning something I knew was a private dispute. I appologize for extending this thread and if my anger is seething over.
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
Camelot
no fight. he can win, seems he needs too. I SURRENDER! I had to blow off steam..
LSS
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
It's common on Morgans from new dies but unattractive to have frost in the fields. It reminds me of the fake frost they show in the coin rags where the doctors didn't do a good job of masking the field. A nice coin shouldn't remind one of a doctored coin.
Maybe I'm just toooo picky.
Camelot
hey legend
no negativity on my part. i told the forum that as a matter of courtesy i would post a scan of the reholdered coin and inform everyone what the settlement was. take the time to read the post of mine directly above your first post. my feeling is that you missed it cause we were both typing our replies at the same time. nothing negative there or in any of the others here.
as i asked of you before, i'll ask again. share some of your considerable knowledge here. in this instance that might include how they will arrive at a price and any personal experience you may have with the grade guarantee policy.
in all frankness you seem to be the one with the negative, defensive attitude and if i know one thing about this forum it's this: if you let these guys know they've gotten under your skin you ARE IN TROUBLE!!!
al h.
As far as PCGS, I really do not know how they will "buy back" the coin. I have NEVER been involved where they actually have done it except via lawsuit threat.
It is my stong opinion that if they searched the market today for similarities, they should at least give you the difference between what you paid and $500.00, what a MS65DMPL is worth. 83CC DMPL s can sell for between $1,500-2,500.00 wholesale. I really do not remeber the coin. But I would say right in the middle is fair.
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
Sorry for my error, you said people who weren't dealers in every major show doing it for a living were wrong 99% of the time.
But you did challange your credentials against anyone else knowing what a 66 DMPL Morgan was. 2 months ago I posted that the coin wasn't a 66 and 3 graders and a finalizer at PCGS agreed with me.
You issued the challenge not me. I don't care about challenging your credentials or to publically berate you but I will publically challenge & berate this coin in question. I know a 66 DMPL and that one aint no such animinal!
How do you think I feel? I feel like I have a huge bullseye on my head by discussing a coin with the most biggest & famous PQ Morgan dealer in the country. I know, love and have intensely studied Morgans, especially DMPL Morgans, especially Carson City Morgans so I'm not one bit scared or easily buffaloed.
I've had PCGS downgrade several coins with no problems, and with what I felt was fair compensation.
Your suggestion of purchase price less $500 sounds reasonable, and I'd wager something in that ballpark is what he'll get. Less attorney fees, of course, if he doesn't ask nicely.
no problem here with what u said. THE GLOVES ARE OFF! Peace dog!
you have every right to feel a coin is a certain grade. I'm going to assume the planchet problem bothers you the most. my big problem-I know a coin can't be accurately graded by an image. it doesn't sound like you've personally seen the coin. thats why I'm so defensive with you. if your a serious student of DMPL's I don't doubt you know what your talking about. but if your "picky" then your personal tastes might be interferring w/a grading judgement about a coin. it doesn't make a coin wrong if it doesn't meet your tastes-it still may meet others!
hey, I make mistakes buying coins too. but geez, which grader made those comments to you? why can't I ever ask them opnions like that??? guess some one is getting a call tomorrow. I want to know more about their verbal regrade policy!!!
time for me to go to the mineral boards and be a collector! BYE!
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Anyway, your former coin was Keet's first experience with DMPLs and I know he was trippin out. He likes the coin now and has learned something about numismatics, that's what REALLY matters. I hope this didn't scare him away from these beautiful & high priced coins.
ps it really wasn't THAT bad of a coin. Enough mushy mushy bs from the dog for now.
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmailcom
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
al h.
<< <i>NO vam44, I'm not saying that. I know what caused the frost in the field. Improper die basining caused it. I.E. the die was not properly polished and failed to remove it. Basining also sets the curvature of the fields, probably why the metal didn't flow well toward the center of the planchet thus the weak strike.
It's common on Morgans from new dies but unattractive to have frost in the fields. It reminds me of the fake frost they show in the coin rags where the doctors didn't do a good job of masking the field. A nice coin shouldn't remind one of a doctored coin.
Maybe I'm just toooo picky.
Backpeddling?
Why would you write such inciteful words if you didn`t mean `em?
Too many experts here that can grade from pictures.It is one thing to make an educated guess as to the grade from a pic.,it`s another to flame the owner,and others who have seen the coin and would be in a better position to GRADE it.
Heck, he doesn't want the money they'd give him for an overgraded coin as well as letting him keep the coin, he just wants JUSTICE.
Lets all petition PCGS to reslab it at the old grade.
That way he doesn't get any money but he does get the plastic with the MS66DMPL on it which is far more important.
Ray
I have been through the regrade process recently,and it went smoothly,albeit a little slow.However,the price differences on my client`s coin were listed on the bluesheet,and all my client recieved was the difference between the two grades as per bluesheet.I suspect, due to the exposure on this board, that you will do better with your situation.
My client opted to have pcgs buy the coin outright as opposed to taking the difference.They paid him full bluesheet.
Do you remember our brief meeting through PTVETTER? Anytime you need an opinion, feel free to ask me.I will be in Cleve. Friday, and try to get to shows in Ohio.I will give you my e-mail address when I see you.I prefer not to give it through this forum.
Oh, have we been here before? Nevermind!
if your post was meant seriously you have totally misunderstood everything i've said regarding this coin. i'll rehash for you so you get it right. i sent the coin in because it became obvious to me that it was overgraded and if i ever wanted to sell it i would lose my shirt. i saw my only salvation as getting the coin properly graded---IMHO---with the hope of a reasonable settlement and retention of ownership. if it had returned in a 66 holder that's where it would have stayed, in my collection in a 66 holder. as it now stands, it's in a 65 holder---and i believe properly graded---and ready to go back to PCGS as per their request for an "in hand" assessment for final settlement.
i think your pipe dream of this coin back in a 66 holder is just that, a pipe dream, though stranger things have happened. in all likelihood it'll be one of two things:
1. the coin in my collection with a settlement check.
2. the coin retained by PCGS with a settlement check.
if the latter were to happen the coins holdering would be beyond my control. perhaps someone else may attempt some cracking or upping. i can't see where your cynical twist on the matter came from, but if you'd like to post an explanation perhaps i can answer any questions you have. beyond that, you're of course entitled to your opinion on my motivation, it just happens that you're wrong.
al h.
hey vam----i do remember a quick handshake as i was making my way outa the show in brookpark, i was wondering if you caught my name cause it was kinda quick. i'll be at the Ohio show on saturday so i'll miss you there. i know pat looked at "Anna" but i don't think you got to see it. he felt certain as i did that it would come down if i sent it in. i'll catch up with you again i'm sure.
I mistook the Vam part of your handle as refering to Van Allen-Mallis. One that studies numismatical vam should know what die basining is.
You ask me why I write such inciteful words if you didn`t mean `em? Well, I meant it. Frost in the field reminds me of a bad fake frost job.
Since you are qualified to speak for keets in telling me that I am flaming him (the owner) please tell him if he feels flamed by me to speak for himself and tell me. It doesn't bother me to give my email address through this forum. It's dog_xx97@errorworld.org Any board members can feel free to email me anytime.
PCGS should be able to give you the number over the phone or by email and they will ask you to agree before a check is cut. If you don't agree, you can haggle a little (VERY LITTLE) and maybe get some grading coupons or something too.
Why don't you call Customer Service, point them to your invoice nymber, and put this chapter to an end.
If you knew why it looked that way, why didn`t you say it in your first post?
I know.Because idiots like me wouldn`t understand.
There, I just insulted myself, you win, just like you did with the lady.
Arf Arf.