ACG bargain hunting

BBN

I thought about looking into these for older halves. Yeah I know ACG sucks, but since no one wants to touch them those coins are actually going cheaper than they would raw. I'm gonna get some and bust them outta their holders to add a raw set I'm putting together.

Hey don't knock me. I don't have $5,000 to just drop on one coin like alot of you. I'm a working class man trying to raise kids and make house payments so the NGC & PCGS MS 67s for Franklins and Walkers are out of my league.

Bear

BBN - If you can get the coin for face value or less, then its a good deal. Bear

goyankeez

I don't know what the veterans think, but I was thinking about doing the same myself for any proof cameos, if I ever found one. Here's a few questions I'll throw in the air. What is the best coin anybody has ever seen in an ACG holder? What was the biggest discrepency in actual grade to grade on the holder anybody has ever seen?

BBN

Yeah I'm gonna be careful and not go for anything eg. an ACG MS67 going for a PCGS MS67 price. If the MS67 is priced similar to say a PCGS in MS63 then I'll go for it. No way would I ever buy ACG for a registry set. I'm doing a Walker short set w/ NGCs MS64+ so If I do buy ACG Walkers they'll be pre 1940 and I'll dump the slab.

FC57Coins

Yankeez:

I've seen a drop of two grades easy - and once I had one returned because of PCV damage. Now - I've also heard of people supposedly crossing ACG coins over to PCGS - I guess anything is possible, but of all the shows I've been to - I have yet to see an accurately graded ACG coin in my opinion.

Bytheway - H'bout them Yankees! - 8 games up!

Later

Frank

BBN

There's a really nice Barber quarter on auction right now that they've graded MS64. I'd say it's probably a 62-63, but either way it is a Beautiful white color and the auction is at $113 w/ 23 hours left.


Hey I'm looking at it this way. If I can get an ACG PR69 for dirt cheap then I've likely gotten a PR67 for less than what 67s are going for.

Tonelover

What's wrong with MS-65's? There are less than a handful of Franklins which will cost you over $100 if you forego the Full Bell Lines. I don't think you want to be cracking out MS-67's for an album anyway.
If you put together a bargain hunters set, don't expect miracles when and if you get an appraisal on it down the road.

I buy certified coins and crack them out for my albums all the time, but there isn't an ACG coin on ebay that's cheap enough for me to consider spending my money on. I've seen way to many horror stories, including the three altered date coins I sent them as a test which all passed their tough scrutiny with flying colors.

andy007

Go ahead and support a crooked and fraudelent company just so you don't have to save to buy a coin from a legitimate coin dealer or grading company's coin. It has nothing to do with prices, it has to do with ethics.

itsnotjustme

But the grade won't matter much when you realize it's a cast copy!

Dog97

A big 10-4 on what andy007 said.

BBN

I don't look at it as supporting a crooked company. If I send my crap to them to grade them then yes. I've never paid them a nickel. As I said I can't put together an MS67 registry set like some of you so I'm doing what works best for me. I'm not a dealer so ethics tag doesn't relate to what I'm doing because I'm probably keeping the coins for life and not doing this as an investment. Also it's not like I'm some rich bast@rd that's a CEO manipulating the stock market so I can get rich and bilk millions $$$ from my employess' 401k. To make it an ethics issue is ridiculis if I'm not looking to resale.

itsnotjustme

If there were no market for ACG slabbed coins, ACG - the crookedest coin grading company known - would go out of business.

braddick

Your logic of non-support to ACG because you don't submit coins to them is faulty. BUYING Accugrade coins supports the dealer network that supports these coins. In a secondary way you are supporting ACG even if you take the coins out of the holders.

BBN

Since we're talking ethics, how about the $50 walk through service some companies charge? Does it really cost $35 more to have it done that much sooner? NO, but who's going to say anything negative about the company that supports this board?

Or how one of these coins in their MS70 slag goes for $700 when the same quality raw coin goes for much less? How about the dealeers that cover the pages of coin magazines raping niaive people w/ outrageous prices. For some reason some of you wanna throw me in the slammer for 20 years.

andy007

So, in essence, your saying that if you buy a computer with Windows pre-installed that you are not supporting Microsoft? That is absurd. It is all about ethics. You buy ACG coin, seller submits more to ACG, you buy more from him, he sends more off, you don't see how your not supporting them????? You are part of the problem. If you really care about the future of numismatics and the hobby that hopefully you care about, why support crooks and frauds who slab counterfeit(FAKE coins, you get it yet?), AT coins, whizzed, tooled, and numerous problem coins as true Mint State and no problem coins with no mention. You really don't get it.

Edited to add comment:

No one said you should be incarcerated for buying ACG coins, or am I in anyway justifying the Littleton type company's who sell whizzed XF coins as Gem coins, they are all at fault. It is about supporting the long term health of a hobby that you are involved in and hopefully care something about.

Bear

BBN - Buy what you wish, in any holder you wish. Just remember, you have been warned that there is real economic danger in dealing with ACG material. I wish you the best of luck in any event. Bear

BBN

So what you're saying is I fit in that category: "if you buy drugs you support terrorism"? You knw what? I'm in it for myself. As I said I'm not some rich bast@rd like some of you dragging down $200,000 a year and that's been in the hobby 30 years. I'm gonna do what makes me happy not what feels good for everyone else. No I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL!!! I'm buying a damn coin in an Aweful Coin Graders slab. Think of me what you will. You won't hurt my feelings.

andy007

As far as walk through grading services at shows, it has nothing to do with ethics. You are paying for convenience, which is always costly no matter what you are discussing. And most of the people paying for the service are those rich b******** that you so eloquently put it who are dealing with expensive coins. And I thought it was $100 for walkthrough, not $50. If you don't or can't pay for the service, go the normal route and save your money, why knock what others do because they take advantage of the quick turnaround and are obviously willing to pay for it?

BBN

Thank you bear.

For you Andy, My little corner of the world will not affect the hobby. As far as I'm concerned I've met very few friendly people in the hobby. Most Numismist are arrogant and try to make you feel stupid and I'm beginning to think this board has a few of those people.

If the hobby fails it will be because of the arrogant dicks that run beginners off because they make them feel incompetent and stupid. They think a person should be a genious from the start.

PS Why the heck you knocking what I do. This is the USA and I'm exercising my right to buy what the hck I want.

Bear

BBN - No need to get defensive. Most of us are just working stiffs like you and have to squeeze those nickels and dimes out of the budget to buy coins . While we sometimes can get a little sanctamonious, we all try to look after each other as best we can. This is America , and everyone is free to do their thing, all we are trying to say is be very, very careful. It could cost you money down the road.Now go forth and be kind to all you meet on this Forum. Bear

andy007

The only thing I will ever think of you is selfish for not caring for the hobby that you are a part of and willing to support fraudelent company's despite hurting your own peers in the hobby. Quite sad if you really gave it some rational thought. You must really have something against successful people who earn a nice income and have enjoyed this hobby for 30 years, what's that all about?

BBN

No, it's those people that think less of people like me because I'm earning a measly $60,000. Sorry for being poor. I've worked hard to get where I am like anyone else.

Dog97

You think some of the replies were "ridiculis" but what is really "ridiculis" is you anouncing to the world on a PCGS sponsered board that you are going to buy ACG to save money. Save on shipping cost and just but some raw ones from a nice dealer.

TomB

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TAP444

Dog said what had to be said,just buy raw coins

IrishMike

No where in the definition of serious collector do I see dollar signs. Think of all the history that the coin you own has been through. How many different hands it went through. I have a friend in Arkansas, who on a visit showed me a porous 1861 IHC, that he had dug up near a Civil War battle field. Imagine for a moment who might have owned that coin. Imagine the skill that was involved in minting classic coins, given the crude methods employed at the time. We are known by who we associate with, if you associate yourself with unscrupolous slabbing companies or dealers then expect comments expressing the ethics involved in doing so. A serious collector in my opinion has a regard for what is good for the hobby. I would be just as impressed by your collection if it was all XF raw coins as I would be if you came on here and had the finest Lincoln set in the registry. What a man owns as far as it's value tells me only that the man had a lot of money. A collector who comes in here and expresses their joy for the hobby and for other's joy is a real collector in my book.

andy007

You should feel fortunate to earn $60,000. I'm not sure who thinks that is a petty salary or what dealer's balk at you for such an income, but I make less than $20,000 annually. That should change soon as I am in an entry level position after graduating from college, but nevertheless, 60 K is nothing to laugh at. Do the right thing against ACG as you would with any dealer that would tell you that you can't afford his coins, ignore them.

clw54

Heck, just buy raw coins. Since ACG will slab virtually anything sent to them, real or not, it's like buying raw coins anyway. And raw coins don't have to be cracked out of a slab. They're more convenient.

braddick

Accugrade is to Coin Collecting as Prostitution is to Marrital Intimacy.

darktone

I have been collecting coins almost thirty years and the problem of over-grading has been around since I first started. If ACG dissapears thier are several other grading companies that are poised to take thier place and if they dissapear others will arise. It is a no win situation for begginners because they do not have the ability to grade a coin for thier self. Educating the begginner is the only way to protect them from being ripped off. As for me I can grade a coin pretty close most of the time and if I see a coin I like in anyones holder I will buy it if the price is good. mike

BBN

<< <i>You have one hell of a poor attitude, BBN. After all, you started this thread as a proclamation, not a question; what did you expect? That you would be given a pat on the back for showing a penchant for greed over ethics? You are also incredibly defensive, I don't recall anyone stating you had to make a certain amount of money to be on these Boards or to contribute. In my opinion, and it is my opinion only, the jerks you are talking about in the coin hobby/industry include someone behind your computer keyboard. >>

BBN

So what you people are saying is it's ethical to charge $100 for a walkthrough service if you want to see youe coins before Christmas? Doesn't sound ethical. Sounds more like ransom to me.

IrishMike

BBN, you aren't listening very well to what people are saying to you, try to put your personal agenda aside for a moment. Have you ever been to a major show and watched the grading tables. Imagine for a moment if they charged the same price at the shows, they would be overwhelmed with submissions. It would be impratical to do that. It's an optional service they provide. You make it sound like they are there to gouge people, many people attend those shows and are willing to pay the price, because they think a coin will upgrade or have just purchased a coin they think will upgrade. If you check out some of the posts on the NGC forum, they (NGC) have given free opinions out at the shows. This service isn't about money, it's about convenience.

BBN

Mike I can say this. I appreciate you at least being civil w/ me. I see where you're coming from.

BBN

At least you didn't call me selfish or unethical like the other two retards.

Sealyp

BBN, I'll not get into anything about ACG becuase I have never delt with them. I did however get an ACG coin in a trade once, having read about them on here, and it being a sight unseen trade, I had it thrown in just for good measure attaching no value to it. It came in as an MS-661945 Washington. After playing with the coins that came in at the same time (the ones I wanted) I got to looking at it. It wasn't to bad a grade. I cracked it out and added it to my raw quater set as it was acctually a better looking coin than I already had. I put it at a high end 64 myself. So give it a try if you find it is a better deal than you can find raw, but don;t put to much faith in the grade printed!

FlyTooHigh

BBN: I think the message here is to buy raw coins from reputable sellers and avoid ACG slabbed coins as they have a tendency to be overgraded. Actually, that strategy will save you time and possibly money in the long run.

I collect Franklins and other halfs and have made a few good purchases being selective on eBay. One $11.00 1959 P Franklin graded MS65! I, too, do not have a fortune to spend on coins. With two kids in college, I have higher priorities than buying a MS67 Oregon Trail Commerative half (love that coin!).

Take it easy. Wait for the coin you want to pop up! It's more fun getting them at bargain prices. You don't have to spend a lot of money to have fun collecting.

Good luck!

Bear

FLY TOO HIGH - iF YOU BUY COINS RAW LIKE OYSTERS, DO YOU HAVE TO AVOID MONTHS WITHOUT THE LETTER "R" IN THEM ? Wouldnt want you to get sick in the tummey from a bad coin. Bear

FlyTooHigh

Yes, Bear, you hit it on the nose!

4thStooge

BBN,
The only recommendation I could make about buying ACG coins is to only buy them when you can see 'em first. As others have pointed out, it's like buying raw. Just to make a point for you, another poster on this thread that has disparaged ACG, willbuy an ACG coin in a heart beat if he can get it at the right price. Many here have alterior motives to bash ACG. They want first shot at cherry picking those slabs, and by steering others away, it just makes it that much easier. Essentially, ACG is no worse than the multitude of dealers that sell problem coins without notation and over graded raw coins on Ebay and at shows. Alan Hager just figured out how to make money at it on a mass scale before anyone else.

TomB

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Bear

Wow Tom, Im sure glad I didnt wear my green elfen suit. After reading your comments, im even afraid to wear my St Patricks Day green tie. Sure am glade we bears dont buy ACG coins. Whew Bear

TomB

Howdy, Bear. Sorry, my post was meant to be very sarcastic, not mean, although I don't know that the difference between the two is always very clear.

By the way, if I could figure out how to use the Quote feature properly I guess I could have avoided the awkward spaceing of my post above.

BBN

TomB, when speaking to me don't address my peter address me, BBN. Oh yeah, one other thing about your post:







edit to remove pic

JJacks

I didn't read this thread carefully yet, but I glanced through it.

I have to ask 1 question. Instead of buying low priced ACG coins and cracking them out for your raw sets, why not just buy coins raw off ebay? They go just as cheap and sometimes lower, and there is a chance the coin will actually be graded honestly, even though that is a low % chance as well. That way, you don't help ACG slabs to sell, and you get your overgraded/low priced raw coins.

Just a thought.

JJacks

Bear

BBN Thats where you are wrong. We all care what is said on this Forum by all the participants. In particular we care what a person named Tom B has to say, because he is held in high regard and respect by the members of this Forum. I tried to tell you earlier in my own way, a soft voice often turneth away wrath. We can all disagree while not becoming disagreeable. Take a deep breath, make a cup of hot tea and soon all will pass and life will go on. Be kind to one another, this is the only world we have to live on. Bear

lathmach

BBN,
Most of us here are just ordinary guys that collect coins as a hobby.
The guys here for the most part are just trying to warn you off from making the same mistakes that they themselves made.
This company misrepresents the coins they slab as to quality, grade and authenticity.
There is so much duplicity on their part, that there is a boycott taking place against their slabs.

Boycott

Now, one thing I think we all should do when a thread like this gets started is to lay out the reasons why we advise against buying ACG slabbed coins (and new PCI slabs as well), in the most reasonable and persuasive manner with no hint of flaming. We really want to encourage new collectors to avoid the skunks, and the way to do it is without any personal attacks.

Ray

andy007

edited cause it was mean:

You will never be respected by anyone with intelligence here. I would suggest starting a new user ID.


I hear the black helicopter coming.

BBN

Everyone but Andrea and Tombey are cool and I'm going w/ raw after some reasearch, but Tom has opened up a can of worms that he'll regret.

goose3

I wish I made 60K/year.

steventheyn

I think BBN just needs to take some deep breaths and think about what he's saying. No one is trying to "throw you in the slammer for 20 years" we're just giving you suggestions from our "30 years of experience"
-Steven C.

By the way, I'm a high school student and I make only a couple thousand $'s a year and I enjoy the hobby greatly.