I think I'm gonna puke...

jtryka

All these threads on the Keets/Dragon incident are really making me sick, not because I think one got ripped off and the other is a dirt bag, or vice versa, but just because this seems like a personal matter that should be handled personally, and that people missed the most important fact in the whole affair, PCGS couldn't grade the coin accurately!

That's right all you Kool-aid drinkers, it started out in a PCGS MS-66 DMPL slab, and now it's in a PCGS MS-65 DMPL stab (at least from what Keets said). Sure everyone makes mistakes, but by some accounts on these boards it just doesn't happen with PCGS, as they are the best, most accurate gods of grading this universe has ever known. But of course that should be expected since it's much easier to bash each other than to address the real issue of why we should or shouldn't place so much trust in the self-proclaimed experts at the professional grading services.

Bear

JT - Try a little 7-up on ice for that nausious feeling. This Forum acts as a catharsis for all that ails its members. All the should haves, could haves and would haves , seem to disappear in the bright light of the Forum discussion. When it is over , all is healed , we all get on with our lives and the world continues to rotate around our sun. Be well Bear.

wallstreetman

Once again, who ever said PCGS was perfect! Could you imagine what the premium would be if PCGS never overgraded a coin by anyones standard!

jtryka

Very funny WSM, wanna buy a double eagle?

Alltec

Bear - Ever try adding Absolute to your Seven-Up? Does a lot more than calm a stomach.

Bear

Alltec - Thats one hell of a good recommendation. I like it!!! Bear

wallstreetman

Will you pay to separate them? If your serious, PM me! I just hope it isnt HYPE!

jtryka

WSM, I was only joking! Besides that's all I would need is a WSM/jtryka ethics thread!!! Besides I only have one for sale right now and it's on eBay. It's a nice coin, but in the wrong holder for you.

EVillageProwler

Jeff,

In all fairness to PCGS, WSM and others who favor PCGS, I really don't think you can blame PCGS for exhibiting inconsistency in an industry that has built-in inconsistency. Please remember that every aspect of grading is done by human beings.

And, folks like WSM never said that PCGS is perfect. His comments, I believe, generally stem from a belief that ON AVERAGE PCGS-slabbed coins are better than others, and that he believes that the odds are strikingly in favor of PCGS over the other brands. And, he believes that the market data supports his conclusion.

Naturally, I question his premise (that PCGS-slabs are, on average, much better than the other brands) and his data analysis (I think he mis-interprets the market data somewhat).

When an ostrich grunts, he grunts. When he squeeks, he squeeks. Let's not confuse grunting and squeeking!

EVP

Dog97

I thought Keets vs Dragon was an interesting ordeal. Learned a little bit about dealers, collectors and PCGS's Regrade Service. Keets would have been up the creek without a paddle if that were an ACG coin he bought or if he would have cracked it out before submitting he would have had no recourse.
Did everyone else not learn anything too?

Bear

Well, I learned that an ostrich can grunt and squeek. I thought only mice knew how to squeek?

jtryka

You're right EVP, but I think my point (though not clear) was that in this case it seems Keets bought the slab and not the coin. If he had bought the coin and not liked it he would have returned both. As for WSM, I realize he didn't imply that PCGS was perfect, but the blind loyalty of many folks still defies login in my opinion.

Dog, I did learn something, not to engage in business transactions on the boards unless I want to deal with public repercussions of a dissatisfied customer.

jtryka

Bear,

Rats can squeak too, but it's just a little more forceful than a mouse's squeak.

Dog97

Alltec

I still think that the Absolute and Seven-Up idea is the solution.

Dog97

Crown on the Rocks. Hey it's Friday afternoon too. That time. Let's all go get drunk and meet back here next Monday.

Placid

That's why I avoid buying ms65-70 coins that have a major price jump for a grade point unless I can get it for the lower grades price or someone nice gives it to me (hint)

baccaruda

considering the coin was a DMPL CC morgan and the price difference between 65 and 66, then coin had probably been resubmitted 500 times until the planets aligned and the PCGS grader was having the day of his life - and gave it a 66.

those types of coins make me cautious because you know high-profile coins are going to get submitted over and over and over until they get an overgrade - then they are sold to me.

cacheman

That is exactly how the low-end 66 in question was created too...then it's inevitable down the road that someone gets screwed either through intent or ignorance.

Bear

Catch - Sometimes you are the screwdriver and sometimes you are the screw.

cacheman

or just the nut, hmmm Bear?