WW BIllman - message for you from Teetelli
Teetelli
Posts: 34
Hi Bill, This is Teetelli from Ebay… You know the guy you have been bashing around quite a bit. I have to tell you I am quite puzzled by your vicious and malicious statements, and quite frankly I find them distasteful, inexcusable and inappropriate. In fact what I find particularly interesting is that you have taken such a hostile course and direction against me, and without even inquiring or qualifying your assertions. I never heard from you, received any emails from you… tell me Bill – are or were you trying to conduct a Salem Witch Hunt here???
Very simply, I have collected a nice amount of high-end PCGS DCAM pieces over the years, when they were readily available. But despite the fact, that these offerings may be overwhelming to you, the fact remains that this represents a very small and insignificant portion of my collection, that I have decided to dispense with. In fact I have done millions of dollars in business with many well noted people in the industry, like Hannes Tulving of the Tulving Company, or Paul Simonetti of Heritage and the like. In fact, many of these modern issues were acquired from R&I Coin, who, as being you are so knowledgeable, is a prominent dealer in this area of the business.
With respect to the MS68, well I really don’t deal with business strikes, and I simply relayed what the PCGS label described the coin to be. When several Ebayers pointed out to me that PCGS had made an error, what did I do??? I immediately withdrew the auction. I think that was responsible and appropriate. What did you do, You Libeled me, Slandered me, and continued your deleterious campaign against me in a public forum and furthermore attempted to cast a shadow of doubt over the integrity of the remainder of my offerings??? Why??? You did not even have the decency to even inquire of me directly, like others did.
Obviously you are an obnoxious ignorant and narrow-minded pampas person. (I would prefer to sate that differently – but I will not lower myself to your playing field).
I on the other hand Bill, am real – very real – and my PCGS offerings are very real as well, and unlike you – many collectors will have the foresight to take advantage of opportunities here, to develop their numismatic endeavors further.
As far as you are concerned Bill, you are a non-event at this point, be careful on what you state publicly, it may come back and bite you in the ---.
If anyone has any issues or concerns, please feel free to use the email link on Ebay, I would be more than happy to address any questions or concerns you may have.
Very simply, I have collected a nice amount of high-end PCGS DCAM pieces over the years, when they were readily available. But despite the fact, that these offerings may be overwhelming to you, the fact remains that this represents a very small and insignificant portion of my collection, that I have decided to dispense with. In fact I have done millions of dollars in business with many well noted people in the industry, like Hannes Tulving of the Tulving Company, or Paul Simonetti of Heritage and the like. In fact, many of these modern issues were acquired from R&I Coin, who, as being you are so knowledgeable, is a prominent dealer in this area of the business.
With respect to the MS68, well I really don’t deal with business strikes, and I simply relayed what the PCGS label described the coin to be. When several Ebayers pointed out to me that PCGS had made an error, what did I do??? I immediately withdrew the auction. I think that was responsible and appropriate. What did you do, You Libeled me, Slandered me, and continued your deleterious campaign against me in a public forum and furthermore attempted to cast a shadow of doubt over the integrity of the remainder of my offerings??? Why??? You did not even have the decency to even inquire of me directly, like others did.
Obviously you are an obnoxious ignorant and narrow-minded pampas person. (I would prefer to sate that differently – but I will not lower myself to your playing field).
I on the other hand Bill, am real – very real – and my PCGS offerings are very real as well, and unlike you – many collectors will have the foresight to take advantage of opportunities here, to develop their numismatic endeavors further.
As far as you are concerned Bill, you are a non-event at this point, be careful on what you state publicly, it may come back and bite you in the ---.
If anyone has any issues or concerns, please feel free to use the email link on Ebay, I would be more than happy to address any questions or concerns you may have.
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Comments
peacockcoins
After many eMails with him, I can tell you that he would definitely be a valuable addition to the forums. I just wish I had more money to grab some of his stuff.
Russ, NCNE
Welcome. Sometimes the more zealous members are knights slaying dragons, and sometimes they're Don Quixote's tilting windmills, but almost everyone here is a grown-up and is able to reach their own conclusions about sellers without depending on the boards as their only source of information. I understand why you would defend your reputation as would I, but I'm sure your insights and opinions about the hobby would also be well received.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
You sure are going out of your way to say hi to me. Do I have a special place in your heart?
Usually new members start a new thread to say hi to everyone and introduce themselves.
You really know how to make one HeII of an entrance.
I really hope you enjoy yourself here there is certainly a lot of good information to be found here.
Hey you may even learn how to tell the difference between a proof coin and a Mint State coin if you stay around long enough.
But I have a feeling you are just here long enough to defend your honor and will disappear.
I am really impressed with those millions you have played with and all those people you know. HeII I personally think everyone who has a lot of money and knows a lot of important people should have the right to say anything and have everyone believe it."I did not have sexual relations with that woman".
I have been called a lot of things in my life and have had quit a few dog bites but nothing I have not been able to shake off.
Again welcome to the boards. I look forward to more of your million dollar in site and learning everything I can from you since you know so many important people.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Now, let's all agree here up front that you are man full of integrity and honor. And, as such, I am confident you would do nothing to harm ebay buyers, especially by selling them a $5 coin hiding out in mulit-thousand dollar "mechanical error" plastic. So, what exactly happened with that Kennedy? Did you buy it as an MS68 in a public forum (like Teletade or ebay?) Did you submit it yourself. I am very interested in this because I am very active with Mint State Kennedys. Last year, I bought the former #1 and #2 MS sets and assisted present #1 with formulating his incredible #1 set. What is the history of that coin? Are you sending it back to PCGS so they can remove it from the pop report? Are you now convinced it is a "mechanical error"? You obviously have some of the nicest proof modern coins out there. Are you convinced now that the 1964 is, indeed, a proof? The resolution of this matter is very important to MS Kennedy collectors, especially those trying to build a "perfect" set.
Please share with us your impressions of the 1964 coin and what will happen to it from here.
Now that we have round one over, lets analyze what I said in the other post.
<< <i>Oh come on......This guy has 87 auctions running right now and every one of them are modern proof coins. All he sells is Proof & SMS coins. Of the 87 auctions he is selling 18 proof Kennedy’’s and 3 SMS Kennedy’’s. >>
I think we can agree that is true.
<< <i>Then out of the blue he has 1 auction for a PCGS labeled MS68 Kennedy that has a light cameo and reflective fields. The coin is a Proof 68 coin in an error PCGS holder that calls it MS68. >>
Again I think we can agree that is true.
<< <i>This guy knows the difference between a Proof and Business strike coin. >>
Ok that is an assumption on my part. My Apologies.
<< <i>Ok maybe if it was a SMS Kennedy that did not exhibit very many proof like qualities in a MS holder I might be able to believe he truly thought it was a MS coin. But to believe a Proof is a MS Kennedy? >>
That is my opinion considering the vast differences between Proof and Mint State coins.
<< <i>If you want to trust this guy is just ignorant and made an honest mistake because he was nice to you go right ahead but don't bash me for not being that gullible and short sighted. >>
Ok, this is where I think you start getting mad. Lets see what would make you mad in this sentence.
“Ignorant” Definition; Lacking knowledge or experience. By your own admission you cannot tell the difference between a proof coin with a cameo affect and a mint state business strike coin. Yet you have been in the hobby for many years, had a lot of interaction with many very knowledgeable people, and have invested big money in a very high grade proof coin collection. I personally feel ignorant may be a strong word but it would apply in this specific instance.
Me not being gullible and short sighted. Well considering all your references, experience, and very expensive collection I just thought someone in your position would educate himself more before he invested all that money in a bunch of coins so he would at least know what type of coin he is buying. Although I can understand not being good at grading and trusting a holder for that.
<< <i>There is a small minute possible chance that he is truly that stupid. >>
I think this made you mad also. Lets see what would make you mad in this sentence.
“Stupid” Definition; Lacking normal intelligence. I am sorry if you took this to mean I think you lack any intelligence about any topic. That was not the intent. I was simply applying this to your specific lack of what I consider normal intelligence as a collector of proof coins. Again, considering all your references, experience, and very expensive collection I just thought someone in your position would educate himself more before he invested all that money in a bunch of coins so he would at least know what type of coin he is buying.
<< <i>Regardless, if it is stupidity or he is just out to screw someone he is not someone I want to buy coins from. >>
Now this last statement was not and did not imply any of your offerings except the one in question was not real. Based on all I had stated above I just did not feel comfortable buying high dollar proof coins from someone who could not tell the difference between a proof and a business strike coin.
Lastly no where in here do I think I ever tried to start a witch hunt or a boycott of your auctions. All I ever stated was how I felt and personal opinions.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Now let me extend my apologies for not being a little more sensitive and using some words that could be misinterpreted as an attack on you instead of just my personal observations and opinions.
It is the sellers obligation to research the product he is selling and represent that product in a honest, truthful, correct fashion. I on the other hand have no responsibility as a potential customer to correct a seller who does not live up to that responsibility (email you) or accept any excuse that seller my offer up. I am free to form and express my own opinion of a seller who does not take that responsibility serious be it an accident or neglagence.
On the other hand I feel your response in this forum it truly an attack on my character. If I am misinterpreting it would you please show me the same respect and explain your true meaning behind it?
I will not bother to continue exchanging insults with you in this forum. So do not expect me to post anymore adversarial responses to any of your future comments.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Welcome onboard. I hope that we will have opportunity to exchange information an experience.
Edson
No Bill, I didn't go out of my way to say Hi to you, I actually went out of my way to say Good Bye and Good Riddens to you.... But I guess I expected too much from your aptitude.
Bill after your last commentary, it's obviously a total waste of time to even acknowledge you exist. Yes, as I stated in my earlier message you are non-event.
Wondercoin, I am not really sure where I got that MS68, but I don't think I bought it under a public forum or from a dealer. A couple of years ago, I sent in several thousand coins - mostly modern commems - and a good portion of modern coinage. I believe that coin may have come back slabbed from one of those traunches. Unfortunately, I did have everything computer tracked but the program was corrupted by a virus and much of the data was lost - back ups would have been a good idea. As far as whether or not it is a proof - I'm not really sure - because I do remember sending in some business strikes. Given the the SMS MS68DCAM I currently have on Ebay right now - which we all would agree, it is what it is as there were no proof coins struck in that year - that coin has deeper and sharper mirrors, more so than many high end modern proofs I have seen. I am just not well versed enough in modern business strikes to discerniate.
As far as the coin itself, I plan on sending it in to PCGS in the next week or two so they can act accordingly. I agree it would not be fair to those high end MS collectors to have this issue laying around unanswered or unresolved.
I hope this answers some of your questions??
Cheers for now
09/07/2006
anyhow, when this blows like Pat said, Id be more than happy to pick your brain, and if your going to the ANA World Fair and will be there aug2nd-4th, id Like to buy ya dinner.
But seriously, You are one incredible collector.
WELCOME
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
At the risk of "meddling", can I ask you Nick to consider something? There isn't a week that goes by around here where good members of this forum do not expose the possible ebay "scam of the week". Rarely, if ever, do the scammers write back and say "yes, I was scamming and you caught me". Many members here have a heightened sensitivity to anything that even remotely smells like a problem and, from what I have seen, in most cases for good reason. I think the practice of raising questionable auctions on these boards is a good thing- well look what happened here in the end - you joined our boards and the pop report may be corrected on a very important coin. Success again
There is always that "one honest guy" on death row. But, even so, the system works. I believe Bill was doing his part to keep the hobby safe. I personally hope he continues to identify POSSIBLE problems out there. Again, at the risk of "meddling", I truly believe both you and Bill should now "shake hands"
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
I definitely agree, there are many who try to perpetrate scams on ebay as well as other public forums, and we should all look out for each other. The need is definitely there. The difference is how we do it, that is what seperates a genuine concern from a reckless thoughtless endeavor.
Take Russ for example, initially he had some very negative intuitions and comments about my auctions. He has every right to, however, I take my hat off to him, he took the time to look into it, contact me with several emails and obtain the clarity necessary to develop a final opinion. He then made the diligent effort to revise his opinion through a number of postings to clarify his view point. Am I angry at him for his earlier comments??? Absolutely not ... the man did what he needed to do to qualify or dispell his concerns, and I respect for that.
Bill on the other hand, did absolutely nothing but take cheap shots at me - and make statements like "A rare opportunity.....To get ripped off ..." To that is inexcusable.
Tell me Mitch, if you suspected someone of scamming and they had little or no feed back, as opposed to someone like myself who has quite a bit of feedback, I would think you would have a different approach toward addressing your concerns. In my instance, with over 700 positive feedbacks, why would I now turn toward scamming??? IT doesn't make sense, therefore it would be reasonable to inquire with the seller, which many people did unlike Bill.
Mitch, knowing what I have, and who I am is sufficient, people like Bill in the final anlaysis are comic distractions to what otherwise should be a pleasant experience.
Why didn't they just shoot out the tires?
-Great movie regardless.
peacockcoins
PS: I think he used the same sheet of steel on the bus in The Gauntlet that he used as a bullet proof vest in Fistful of Dollars.
Russ, NCNE
Welcome to the boards! Hope to hear more from you.
Larry
Dabigkahuna
can be mended...
...Welcome Nick. You are a man after my own heart. I, too, like the
proofs, but concentrate on the uncs. Do try to stick around, we're
all still learning and many of our excesses can just be chalked up to
"youthful exuberance".
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Well Bill, There you have it and you have proved my point - you missed the whole boat - ignorant. or are you??? Obviously there is no responsible or legitimate reply to my commentary to you Bill, so.... let's try to shift the focus... twist the intent.... invent a new array of smoke and mirrors ....oldest game in the book. >>
Proved your point? Missed the boat? No responsible or legitimate reply to my commentary? Your commentary was all about how much you were puzzled by my vicious and malicious statements and my hostile course and direction against you. Seeing how all of my statements you were referring to was in the other post I elected to bring them here and feel I addressed your concerns quite well. Please explain how I tried to shift focus. My whole focus was a direct response to your whole argument. Your intent was quite clear but your ability to follow through is lacking.
<< <i>No Bill, I didn't go out of my way to say Hi to you, I actually went out of my way to say Good Bye and Good Riddens to you.... But I guess I expected too much from your aptitude. >>
Well seeing how we were never introduced in the first place I don’t see how saying good bye was appropriate. Aptitude? You are questing MY aptitude? Do you even know what that word means?
<< <i>Bill after your last commentary, it's obviously a total waste of time to even acknowledge you exist. Yes, as I stated in my earlier message you are non-event. >>
You feel it is a total waste of time because you have no logical defense except admitting what I said is true or that yes you were out to mislead a buyer. But your ego will not let you admit I am right and your reputation will not allow you to admit to the latter. All I have heard out of you is boasting and shady excuses. As for me being a non event, let the truth speak for its self. If you want to come in here and tell everybody how much money you have and who you know so you can feel like the big guy on campus go right ahead. Your status in the hobby may encourage some to close their eyes and suck up to you in hopes of profiting in some unforseen way, but not me.
I could care less if you have 5 or 700 feedbacks. Is that to imply someone with hundreds of feedback is above reproach? Does 700 feedbacks automatically makes that person honest and not capable of using that as a way to instill confidence in an unsuspecting buyer on occasion?
I apologized for being a little harsh in how I expressed my opinions and will not do it again. I have specifically addressed all your accusations. As far as I can see you are the one who is putting up a smoke screen. I waited awhile to post this response to see if you were willing to shake hands and put this behind us as was suggested by other forum members but if you are not willing to bury the hatchet so be it.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Camelot
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
But, TomB, this is very interesting because of the following (my opinion only):
1. When one admits they graded the coin themselves, they are not entitled to any compensation from PCGS. This is because they submitted say a $5 coin and the fact it was holdered as a $5000 is purely mechanical. The submitter gets back his grading fee and a pat on the back (been there, done that - like the time I got back 5 1964 designated SMS quarters, but I had pulled the coins from an original roll. I gave PCGS back around $40,000 in coins. They gave me back around $40 in grading fee credits, which is all I expected - well, lunch would have been nice)
2. If TomB is right and Nick actually bought the coin in the open market, relying upon PCGS's error, he would likely be entitled to a full refund (at least). Like the time I bought a non-SMS designated Lincoln off Teletrade (I think it was a 1967 in a PCGS-MS68 holder - which would be worth multi-thousands) and it was nothing more than an unlabeled SMS coin worth way less than I paid. Rick M. promptly refunded my purchase price as I bought the coin IN GOOD FAITH (even sent it to him within the Teletrade return policy). I got all my money back.
3. The moment PCGS gets the coin back, they will punch two or three buttons on their computer and know the following:
a. Exactly who submitted it
b. Exactly when it was submitted
c. Exactly which graders graded it and the grades they each placed on the coin
You lose INSTANT CREDIBILITY with PCGS FOREVER if you BS them here, which people sometimes do when they tell PCGS the sad story of how they acquired the coin.
Finally, if a coin was acquired as I acquired my faulty SMS cent described above, AND IF THE COIN HAD BEEN SUBMITTED BY AN AUTHORIZED DEALER, PCGS can and most likely will simply charge the dealer for the entire cost of the mistake. This is one of the rules you agree to when you sign on as an authorized dealer.
<< <i>I am not really sure where I got that MS68, but I don't think I bought it under a public forum or from a dealer. A couple of years ago, I sent in several thousand coins - mostly modern commems - and a good portion of modern coinage. I believe that coin may have come back slabbed from one of those traunches. >>
To me this indicates that Nick thinks he made the coin, which he may have, however, that wouldn't mesh very well with the thought that this very coin was offered last year on ebay and many Board members were in touch with the then seller. Under these circumstances I would assume Nick bought the coin. This brings up the tricky question of what is the responsibility of PCGS here? Obviously, they should have labeled the coin properly the first time. Outside of that I don't know what they would owe Nick since he doesn't know at this point where the coin came from since it seems his records were corrupted by a virus. That would make it extremely difficult to justify a claim of $5,000 or so damages from this PCGS error. It kind of makes it a mess.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I saw your reply, but made sure I did not take the time to read it - nor will I. I think the good people on this forum deserve better than that. I said this and you are a non event, and I am keeping it that way - good bye and good luck, and stop making people waste their time.
If PCGS has the serial number, they already know the whole story!!
In the grand scale of things, this is but a small fish in the ocean. I do really believe that it was one of the slabs that came back to me, but perhaps I am mistaken. Is it possible that you folks saw the other MS68 a year or so ago??? In either event, I am going to send it back to PCGS, we will get it cleared up one way or the other - and guess what people - life goes on. You always have to expect a few bumps along the way, and if this was indeed one of mine, well let's chalk it up as tuition for modern business strikes 101. I can live with that - I'm sure we have all experienced something along similar lines.
We may not be able to resolve the mystery - but we will certainly resolve the mystery of the MS68 that I have.
Good luck with PCGS, Nick. It would be nice to find out what happens with this piece.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I went back and looked up Teetellis coins cert number that showed it a MS68 last week and guess what? Today the PCGS data base shows it to be a Proof 68.
PCGS did not even wait to get the coin back before they corrected the error in their data base.
Kudos PCGS, you are doing a fine job. Thank you for clearing this up so quick.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Like I said before, PCGS already knew the whole story just from that serial number
I just did not know they could make changes like that without getting the coin back in their possession even if they suspected an error.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
I just did not know they could make changes like that without getting the coin back in their possession even if they suspected an error. "
Bill: Yes, it is one of PCGS' weapons to deal with mechanical errors. They do this often. Their position is that in the rare event they might be wrong ever, the owner will come forward and PROVE to PCGS why the pop report should be put back to where it was. In such a case, "no harm, no foul".
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
al h.
Welcome to the boards. I have enjoyed looking at some of your very nice coins on eBay. Hope you stick around as these forums are (for the most part) a good source of information (giving & receiving).
If you ever feel it is not, just think to yourself, "if ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more ecstatic people" ?
Welcome and enjoy your stay,
Chris
I love Ike dollars and all other dollar series !!!
I also love Major Circulation Strike Type Sets, clad Washingtons ('65 to '98) and key date coins !!!!!
If ignorance is bliss, shouldn't we have more happy people ??
A warm welcome! I applaud your statements in this thread! It seems that some people just have way too much time on their hands and can not find anything better to do than put forth ignorance and blatant rudeness. Good luck on your auctions. I look forward to working with you in the future. You have some very fine coins.
Chris
Pura Vida!
Unfortunately, some people do have too much time on their hands. I can't tell you how many private emails I have received expressing similar thoughts, it is nice to know there are a lot of nice people out there, such as your self.
Once again thanks for the warm welcome,
Nick