Today's ancient/dark age/medieval newps- a busy day for me! (update: NGC results in!)

lordmarcovan · January 16, 2013 5:24AM

It's been a busy day, and one far in excess of my normal budgetary constrictions, but I'm converting some of the proceeds of the recent sale of my Holey Coin Vest collection (and paid some bills, too, so I can splurge with a clear conscience).

<< FRANCE, Metz. Civic issue. 14th-16th century. AR Gros (3.01 gm)
Boudeau 1659; Saurma 1896/927; Roberts 8932. Toned, good VF >>

<< GAIUS CALIGULA. 37-41 AD. Æ AS
GAIUS CALIGULA. 37-41 AD. Æ As (10.96 gm). Struck 37/38 AD. C CAESAR AVG GERMANICVS PON M TR POT, bare head left / VESTA, S C across field, Vesta seated left, holding patera and sceptre. RIC I 38; BMCRE 46; Cohen 27. Good VF, dark patina. >>

This is actually my third Caligula in present ownership. The other two have had run-ins with bronze disease, which is frustrating, since my other VESTA As has detail as nice as this one, maybe, but some newly-acquired and tragic pitting from the bronze disease, which it caught suddenly and catastrophically. I am hoping this one will be a bit luckier. If I can get it NGC holdered, my Twelve Caesars slab set will be complete, and the upgrading can begin.

<< Justinian I. 527-565. AV Tremissis (15mm, 1.50 g, 7h). Constantinople mint. Pearl-diademed, draped, and cuirassed bust right / Victory advancing right, head left, holding wreath and globus cruciger; star to right; CONOB. DOC 19; MIBE 19; SB 145. Good VF, slightly wavy flan, small edge split. >>

mnemtsas2 · January 16, 2013 5:25AM

Very nice LM.

ajaan · January 16, 2013 5:52AM

Is that gold I see? Nice.

Have you sold the gold off your hat?

lordmarcovan · January 16, 2013 6:02AM

Yep, that is only my second piece of ancient gold ever, and the first without a hole. And in answer to your second question, I have kept the Holey Gold Hat (and my two silver favorites from the Holey Coin Vest.) The other ancient gold is a holed Zeno solidus, ex-Eliasberg, which is the centerpiece to my hat.

bronzemat · January 16, 2013 6:48AM

Beautiful additions. Surprisingly I like the AR Gros the best. Its in fantastic shape. I especially like the hand of god.

Hopefully the Caligula wont get BD like the other two

Not much to say on the gold other then lucky #$&!*,

Zohar · January 16, 2013 7:16AM

Someone has been busy!

worldcoinguy · January 18, 2013 5:53AM

Nice shopping spree Rob! I like the Metz piece in particular.

SmEagle1795 · January 18, 2013 6:00AM

Nice Caligula!

Swampboy · January 19, 2013 1:17AM

<< Nice Caligula! >>

STLNATS · January 19, 2013 2:15AM

Interesting run of coins Rob, the Metz piece is especially pretty. Several times I've thought seriously about chucking it all and building a focussed collection limited to 100, or so, killer coins. However, I suffer too much from the "oh look a shiny thing" syndrome so realize I'll never be able to actually pull this off.

It'll be interesting to see you finsh and then upgrade/rotate new coins into it.

coinlieutenant · January 19, 2013 2:53AM

I like that French piece.

Good job converting the hole set to a new partial set. Wise choice IMO.

lordmarcovan · January 25, 2013 8:48PM

The Metz gros arrived the other day, and looks fantastic. (Thanks, BS!)

The tremissis arrived yesterday and I'm very pleased with it. It's only my second piece of ancient gold, as mentioned, and my first ancient gold without a hole in it. It's also the first gold coin of any kind I've bought in quite some time, certainly since bullion shot up and put most gold out of my reach. To be able to add not just a gold coin but an ancient one to my modest collection is a nice thing, and something that isn't likely to happen to me very often.

SaorAlba · January 25, 2013 10:13PM

I am not forgiving you quite the yet for your letting of the holey vest - it was a numismatic wonderland worthy of note.

lordmarcovan · January 26, 2013 5:19PM

Good. I'm not so sure I deserve forgiveness on that score, yet.

But hey, I kept the hat with the holey gold on it, at least. (And two of my favorite silver pieces from the vest.)

WillieBoyd2 · January 27, 2013 2:38PM

The Justinian Tremissis looks interesting.

Victory looks like she is dancing, with one foot up.

She almost has a resemblance to Mary Tyler Moore.

LochNESS · January 27, 2013 3:51PM

Mary Tyler Moore. Now that's a show of which I haven't even seen reruns in about twenty years.

Rob! Awesome newps. Congrats on the Caligula. Now, I believe you're familiar with our forum ad valorum tax? Every newp needs to be registered! Just PayPal me 10% of the book values and I'll let it slide this time

nicholasz219 · January 27, 2013 11:12PM

Lord Marcovan, how rare are the Caligula as(es?, I don't know how to pluralize that correctly). I have a small collection of Roman Imperial As and Denarii but it really has no rhyme or reason. I would like to at least work on some sort of Twelve Emperors set to give it at least an overaching theme and possible completion at some point.

I'm impressed by all of the recent purchases, btw. Very nice group.

On a side note, were you at the ANA in Chicago in '91? I believe I might have met you there or somewhere with your holey vest while I was a teenager. I don't think there were too many others walking around with holey coin vests on. That or I am hallucinating from other things I did in my teenage years.

lordmarcovan · January 28, 2013 1:15AM

<< Lord Marcovan, how rare are the Caligula as(es?, I don't know how to pluralize that correctly). I have a small collection of Roman Imperial As and Denarii but it really has no rhyme or reason. I would like to at least work on some sort of Twelve Emperors set to give it at least an overaching theme and possible completion at some point.

I'm impressed by all of the recent purchases, btw. Very nice group.

On a side note, were you at the ANA in Chicago in '91? I believe I might have met you there or somewhere with your holey vest while I was a teenager. I don't think there were too many others walking around with holey coin vests on. That or I am hallucinating from other things I did in my teenage years.

>>

You definitely should try a "Twelve Caesars" collection, if not a wider Roman emperor collection (empresses, too, if you like!) Caligula AEs are not especially rare, but they're scarce enough, I guess. And pricey when one gets up into the more attractive specimens. In my first attempt at a Roman emperor collection in 2007-08, I found a decent Caligula easily enough, and so downplayed all the hype one hears about him being the toughie in a Twelve Caesars set. An acceptable Otho was far tougher for me at the time. Now, on my second time around, I've found Caligula to indeed be the hardest, but mostly because of my aforementioned problems with bronze disease on the last two I bought. My uppermost budgetary ceiling has traditionally been $500/coin, but I did stretch a little bit above that for this piece. Of the three newps in the OP of this thread, that Caligula was the most expensive, costing even more than the gold coin.

I wasn't in Chicago in 1991, but in North Carolina. In fact, I was only just rekindling my interest in numismatics, having set aside my childhood collection after high school in 1984. In 1991 I was a new father and living pathetically poor. A BU Mercury dime would at the time have been a major coup for me. But my Darkside inclination was about to be born- I think I got my first Krause catalog around 1992. So no, you wouldn't have seen me wearing the Holey Coin Vest in '91. I didn't start that until the fall of 2000. But it's not an original idea to me- other people have done it in the past.

nicholasz219 · January 28, 2013 6:54AM

Hmmm, I think that I for sure saw someone wearing the precursor of he truly famous holey coin vest. I also think that if you two ever met that a "Highlander" type standoff would be appropriate.

Hmmm. $500 per coin is so far above my ceiling o' spending that I may just go back to my British penny collection and let my Roman Emperor collection just sit for a bit. I would love to complete some sort of Roman Emperor collection though.

lordmarcovan · January 28, 2013 4:13PM

<< Hmmm. $500 per coin is so far above my ceiling o' spending that I may just go back to my British penny collection and let my Roman Emperor collection just sit for a bit. I would love to complete some sort of Roman Emperor collection though. >>

With a ceiling of only $100/coin, you can make a lot of headway. You'll just have a tougher time with some of the Twelve Caesars, particularly Caligula and Otho. And if you stretched to $200-250 for those, you could probably find a provincial with their portrait. Some of the provincials have more interesting designs, anyway.

Nobody has ever had or ever will have a "complete" Roman emperor set, not even the British Museum.

The Caligula arrived from London today. Looks nicer in hand. Probably even a bit nicer than the one that caught bronze disease (which I'd paid a lot less for).

So some of the sting of having to dig deep in my pocket for another example is mitigated by the fact I'm pleased with the purchase. The patina looks good. It doesn't look like it's about to break out in spots, either, though I'll be watching it like a hawk.

nicholasz219 · January 28, 2013 10:37PM

Well, I have to be careful with my budgetary constrictions, but I think I will work more on my Roman Emperor set. Even if it is to tick off a piece on the checklist occasionally, I forgot how much I enjoyed the coins I already have. My daughter also thinks that they are "neat" because they are so freaking old. Considering that I haven't bought a Russian coin in over a month and have been working on my English penny set (Hammered coins, I recently discovered, pretty much rule) with limited success, it's possible that I might be able to slip a Roman coin in there here and there.

I have had some luck with one fellow on the bay and his ancient material. I did buy one or two off of VCoins, but they seem so high priced that there is very little chance of ever finding a bargain.

Any recommendations for sellers? Any books I should have? I believe I have Sear and a history book that lists all of the Emperors because oddly I was having trouble finding that information condensed in a really easily accessible work.

lordmarcovan · April 17, 2013 9:31AM

NGC results are in!

VF on the Caligula - not quite a "Ch VF" grade as the seller had it, but that's fine by me. I'm just glad I finally got a Caligula into TPG plastic. That has been something of a trail of tears, with the two prior bronze disease incidents. And I like the patina on this one. (I had to pay quite a bit more for it than the last two.)

And.. Mint State on the Justinian tremissis! Woohoo! CNG had it as a gVF! I was hoping for Ch XF at best! OK, so NGC gave it a "wrinkled" comment, which is in keeping with the "slightly wavy" flan. I can definitely live with that. I'm happy. This is only my second piece of ancient gold, as mentioned, and the first without a hole in it. Also my first MS coin since I started slabbing ancients.

(The Metz gros in the OP is still raw. I am planning on doing my medieval coins with PCGS.)

There were seven other bronzes in this submission; four Seleucid Greeks with desert patina and three late Roman pieces. Cheapo stuff for the most part. In fact, all of them were cheaper than the cost of slabbing 'em, but I slabbed 'em anyway because I felt like it. I think the Seleucids will be well worth having in plastic. All of these cheaper bronzes went F to VF.

<< COIN LIST

Coins for NGC Invoice Number 4170211
LineItem Year Mint Mark Variety/Pedigree Denom. Grade Comments Comments
001 Justinian I AD 527-565 BYZANTINE EMPIRE AV Tremissis MS wrinkled
002 Caligula AD 37-41 ROMAN EMPIRE AE As VF
003 Antiochus VIII 121-96 BC SELEUCID KINGDOM AE17 F
004 Antiochus IX 114/3-95 BC SELEUCID KINGDOM AE19 F
005 2nd-1st Centuries BC CILICIA TARSUS AE20 F
006 Antiochus IX 114/3-95 BC SELEUCID KINGDOM AE18 F
007 Constantius II AD 337-361 ROMAN EMPIRE BI Centenionalis F
008 Diocletian AD 284-305 ROMAN EMPIRE BI Aurelianianus VF
009 Probus AD 276-282 ROMAN EMPIRE BI Aurelianianus Ch VF >>

JCMhouston · April 17, 2013 11:30AM

Congrats LordM

Pokermandude · April 17, 2013 11:35AM

Congrats, that is a sexy ancient gold

worldcoinguy · April 17, 2013 12:32PM

Congrats on the good returns. I like that Caligula alot.

nicholasz219 · April 17, 2013 7:32PM

Good job, LordM, nice coins!

marcmoish · April 17, 2013 10:27PM

Congrats for a job well done

Dabigkahuna · April 19, 2013 3:50AM

Congrats on the Caligula!

It's to bad that NGC uses such low res pics on there certification page. I have paid for there better service in the past but wasn't impressed at all with the results. They used to only give you a font and back of the slab like they do in the cert check but they were a little sharper. I don't know if they have changed that now?

lordmarcovan · April 19, 2013 8:50PM

True, the photos on the NGC cert verification pages aren't optimal, but they're free to link to, anyway.

I made the mistake of paying for their cheaper $3/coin imaging service once and found I could have done better with my scanner. Never coughed up for the more expensive imaging. I'm sure it doesn't compare favorably with PCGS' TrueView, which is one reason PCGS will be getting my medievals and anything else they'll grade. Obviously they won't do ancients (and perhaps a lot of Dark Age types), so NGC still gets those.