Grading, slabs and value

spoon · April 20, 2009 8:31AM

If NEN is asking $225 for this, which is in a NGC MS66 RD holder,

what do you think this one is worth?

Krause says $7.

This isn't anything against NEN, maybe a little against Krause, I'm just trying to figure out how pricing works. I might like to sell this one, but only if the price is right (I have no illusions of getting near NEN's price for this one though!)

ormandh · April 20, 2009 8:45AM

There definitely is a premium for high grades in copper. A 66 is pretty good for the series from what I have seen. I have one of those in unc, but not as nice as those. The spots on yours will probably keep it lower grade wise. I would bet that most look like yours(or worse, like mine). -Dan

ormandh · April 20, 2009 8:48AM

I am actually surprised that the one from NEN was graded a 66. There are spots on it and it appears that it could have been lightly cleaned on the reverse field at 7 o'clock. -Dan

spoon · April 20, 2009 8:56AM

Yeah, there are a few contact marks and light dirt on the NEN one. I don't think it was cleaned though, just the lighting. But the lack of protruding prongs indicates its an older NGC slab so... (it is very very nice though, better than average)

I dunno, maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into parting with mine. Actually, my pics make it seem much more harsh than it really is. The glowing cartwheel luster makes the dirt barely noticeable and those spots around the denom are barely visible in hand.

Finland does seem wildly undervalued in Krause. Sure, nice pieces can be found without too much trouble, but really they're about the same frequency as nice French or Italian pieces, harder to find than their Russian counterparts. But it seems the rise in Russian items has caused some spillover interest in early Finnish pieces recently, finally.

I also have all the late 25 and 50 pennia in UNC/BU, which Krause says are worth a mere $1.50 to $2.50 apiece!

ormandh · April 20, 2009 9:03AM

When Finnish and Belgium PQ coppers start taking off I will make a mint!

spoon · April 20, 2009 9:09AM

Ha! Belgium is another one! (though much easier than Finland) Maybe we should start egging on the Flemish separatists and urge them toward partition, just to generate some interest in the place

IloiloKano · April 20, 2009 9:36AM

<< <i>Maybe we should start egging on the Flemish separatists and urge them toward partition >>

You anarchist you!

SYRACUSIAN · April 20, 2009 9:55AM

NEN tends to price 66RDs at about 40% more than a 65RD, let alone RBs or lower numbers. And don't forget that they will usually accept a 20% discount on underlined items, or more if the items are languishing. I've seen coins that NEN has in identical grades selling higher no reserve on ebay, especially 66RDs.

Some Belgian coppers are dirt common even in 66RD, such as the hoarded 1912 centime in both types. If you're looking for a country going up, try Norway and Sweden in gem grades. But spoon's observation is spot on about the Russian interest on some Finnish pieces.

The Ionian islands were under Russian-Greek administration for 2-3 years, in the very early 1800s, thus making them the first modern Greek state, almost 30 years earlier than the mainland (although they really became again part of Greece in 1862). Two coins from that time, the famous gazettes, sold for $25K+ a piece in recent auctions. They had a printed 1000 euro and a real 2000 euros estimate.I can assure you that the buyer's or even the next 3-4 underbidders' origin was not Greek.

ormandh · April 20, 2009 10:22AM

<< <i>Some Belgian coppers are dirt common even in 66RD, such as the hoarded 1912 centime in both types. If you're looking for a country going up, try Norway and Sweden in gem grades. But spoon's observation is spot on about the Russian interest on some Finnish pieces.

>>

I am sorry, but in the States I am not seeing any premium Swedish coppers selling for any higher than they were last year. Maybe in a different market, but not in the US.

Do you have any examples to prove this point?

ormandh · April 20, 2009 10:39AM

Better yet, which venue would one be able to sell a premium Finnish or Swedish coin for a premium? Ebay definitely is not. Are you referring to graded coins only? If that is the case where would one sell these coins to the intended buyers? -Dan

SYRACUSIAN · April 22, 2009 2:47AM

<< <i>

I am sorry, but in the States I am not seeing any premium Swedish coppers selling for any higher than they were last year. Maybe in a different market, but not in the US.

Do you have any examples to prove this point? >>

Unfortunately, ebay is no longer giving access to completed auctions older than 2 weeks, unless they were bookmarked in advance.
So, I emailed an active ebay seller friend of mine, and I'm posting his quick reply below, even though I was referring mostly to the 1 penni denomination that has also sold several times for multiples of its CV in 65 and 66RD, and less but still much higher than CV, in lower RB grades.

I sold some copper 10 Pennia in PCGS MS64 RED over the last several months.
1917 dated catalog is $10 in unc and early this year one sold for $107.50.
1919 dated catalog is $5 in unc and last year sold one for $28, but this year sold one for $78.
The Civil War coinage is very hot right now.
Non-Coppers:
1917-S 25P in NGC MS65 sold for $59. Catalog is $1.50 in unc.
1915-S 25P in NGC MS65 sold for $36. Catalog is $1.50 in unc.

High grade Swedish coins have definitely increased in value in the last two years. I used to skip this country as it was dead and wouldn't even get my slabbing fees back. Last 6 months I've sold a bunch of slabbed gems for MANY multiples of catalog. I don't have access to these prices as I'm at work and I won't be home until Sunday evening.

As for Norway, I personally sold a 1873 12 skilling with a cat value of ~$250-$300 (I too am at work right now) for $1250 a couple of months ago.

So, without having exactly studied the case, my general impression is that they have all increased in value and buyer's interest.

zeebob · April 22, 2009 3:54AM

I think $85 for the second coin.

coinnuttius · April 23, 2009 1:14AM

<< <i>I am actually surprised that the one from NEN was graded a 66. There are spots on it and it appears that it could have been lightly cleaned on the reverse field at 7 o'clock. -Dan >>

Bingo. Spoon's 64RB even has a better strike. Find a nice 64RB with lots of red and see how many of those have sold and for how much, then you have a good idea of value. The NEN coin is for holder collectors.

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · April 23, 2009 1:39AM

1917-S 25P in NGC MS65 sold for $59. Catalog is $1.50 in unc.

I just bought a 1917-S 25P PCGS MS66 for $75.

spoon · April 23, 2009 4:40AM

I'd definitely agree with Dimitri's comments. While I haven't focused on that area, what I have casually come across lately has seemed to bring pretty strong prices as compared to a year or so ago, especially the Swedish stuff.

As for the OP coin, mine is raw, but I think it'd be a safe bet on 64RB. The strike quality could just be an effect of different lighting, but at least the left eagle's jaw on NEN's is definitely weaker.

This is really making me wish I had the time to slab them! I'll have to try to get some decent pics of the silver. Really hard to get the lighting right with the luster on those tiny things! Here's the 1915 50p, flooded with light tho:

zeebob · April 23, 2009 5:12AM

That 1915 looks great!

spoon · April 23, 2009 6:01AM

a 1917 25p, this one shows some die polish lines on obv (not quite captured in the pic). Much brighter luster in hand, nearly blast white and just a touch of color:

Grading, slabs and value

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