If we head into a long term Depression......Is it better

Bear · February 20, 2009 2:37PM

To have bags of circ silver coinage

Silver bars 1-10 OZ

Silver bars 50, 100 oz

Gold small amounts 1/10, 1/4 oz

Gold 1 oz

Considerations are really two;

Most efficient purchase price............Obviously bigger is better priced

Most efficient size to buy things
in the case of a collapse of money...Obviously smaller is more efficient to spend or trade
in a Hyperinflationary Depression.

Metalsman · February 20, 2009 2:41PM

<< To have bags of circ silver coinage

Silver bars 1-10 OZ

Silver bars 50, 100 oz

Gold small amounts 1/10, 1/4 oz

Gold 1 oz

Considerations are really two;

Most efficient purchase price............Obviously bigger is better priced

WHAT ABOUT HONEY? and lots of it Bear!... sorry I just could'nt resist.

Bear · February 20, 2009 2:43PM

Actually honey is an excellent item to store. It does not spoil

if kept tightly sealed and is an excellent source of energy.

"I love the smell of honey in the morning.....It smells like....

VICTORY"

mrearlygold · February 20, 2009 2:44PM

You better have a few guns and plenty of ammo as the guys who have them will take your metals if you don't.

Bear · February 20, 2009 2:50PM

I gots me the following

1. Army Colt 45 automatic

2. Browning 9 mm automatic

3. Ruger 357 Magnum revolver 4" barrel

4. High Standard 22 Cal 9 shot revolver

5. Winchester Rifle.

6. Survival knife

COINB0Y · February 20, 2009 2:53PM

I'd love to have a Browning Automatic Rifle and a helmet to *clunk* the magazines against before I slap them in.

Bear · February 20, 2009 3:01PM

That was a heavy weapon and one usually handed

to the biggest guy in the unit. It was a very comforting thing

to have a few on the line in the old days, before plastic and

space age composites came into vogue.

COINB0Y · February 20, 2009 3:08PM

I know a guy who was a Radio Man and carried a B.A.R. on Iwo Jima. (was Marine Recon )

About his service there, he just says that he was the only Marine on the Island that ever carried both. He will never talk about what went on.

His brother (died a few years ago) was a Sargent and dropped with the 82nd Airborne on D-Day.

These two guys are (and were) quiet and nothing in life ever phased them.

dlimb2 · February 20, 2009 3:28PM

My father was 82nd Airborne and also Jumped on D'day....They were lead into battle by the youngest 4 Star General in American History.(35)....General Gavin...My father was his driver....My father also drove Glen Miller to the Airport the night they disappeared over the English Chanel.....but he never really spoke of the War either...except the fun times they had...in 1994 he and the 82nd Airborne Association of Chicago returned to Europe for the 60th Anniversary....which he should have never done, because it brought back the memories, that he should have forgotten!

Darin · February 20, 2009 3:33PM

<< You better have a few guns and plenty of ammo as the guys who have them will take your metals if you don't. >>

Ding Ding Ding.......... We have a winner. It only took the second reply for 'Guns and Ammo' to show up.

With a little more work out of you guys that should be the first response for every single thread, regardless what the title of the thread is.

coynclecter · February 20, 2009 4:59PM

IF we head into a depression????

where have you been hybernating? in cave? Its here, now and getting worse.

Don't wait for the powers to "declare" a depression. They won't use the D word until they know its over.

mercurynut · February 20, 2009 8:49PM

Since someone should take a shot at answering the question.

I was thinking about the same question a few months back and I decided that 90%, silver eagles and small bars (10 oz) were the way to go.

BBN · February 20, 2009 10:37PM

what about making your own 1/2 and 1/4 ounce silver bars?

ttown · February 20, 2009 10:47PM

Well If I were thinking a major depression was coming stock up on goods to barter, hey booze did great in the last depression

Really a handgun is about the last weapon you'd want as groups of people wander the countryside. It's a last resort weapon for the house and good to carry on your person (with CCW of course). Really you would have to be on watch 24 X 7 even your garden wouldn't be safe from an assult or smoke coming from your fireplace would attract people. Have a generator? Many will take it off your hands. Weapons should be deployed IMO in this order:

1. Rifle (223 or 7.62 X 39 best due to cost of ammo). Your deer rifle won't do you much good with that whole box of ammo you have for it. I can see that this board hasn't tried to purchase ammo lately everyone is selling out quick. This is your long and med. range weapons. If something like this really played out guns would be a dime a dozen but ammo would be gold.

2. Shotgun with slugs or #1 buckshot (best) but everyone will have 00 buck which is okay. This is your medium to short range weapon and nothing at these ranges is better. The Mossberg Mavrick 88 is under $200 and is designed for home defense. Forget the fancy handgrips and cool stuff while they look cool they'll slow you down.

3. Last resort handgun that is kept on the person. If you face someone with the above weapons good luck.

While were on the subject train, train, train. I've had my CCW for 5 years now and have handgun training. I've hunted all my life and I'm best with a shotgun. So my plan if to take a urban rifle course since I've shot a lot of 22 LR but I'm not a rifle guy in general so I'll work on my weakest skill. Here's the class I'll take in the next few months but man trying to find 1500 rounds of 223 and 300 rounds of pistol ammo is not only costly it's scarce.

USSA Tactical Rifle

secondrepublic · February 20, 2009 10:48PM

If we head into a depression, plain old cash will do just fine.

Keep the PMs for a period of inflation. Which is not what we're seeing now.

ttown · February 20, 2009 11:12PM

<< If we head into a depression, plain old cash will do just fine.

Keep the PMs for a period of inflation. Which is not what we're seeing now. >>

If we head into a depression than more than likely it's because we printed too much money and paper will be worthless.
Barter items much better IMO.

garsmith · February 21, 2009 12:34AM

<< To have bags of circ silver coinage

Silver bars 1-10 OZ

Silver bars 50, 100 oz

Gold small amounts 1/10, 1/4 oz

Gold 1 oz

Considerations are really two;

Most efficient purchase price............Obviously bigger is better priced

Most efficient size to buy things
in the case of a collapse of money...Obviously smaller is more efficient to spend or trade
in a Hyperinflationary Depression. >>

If we're heading into a depression it might be a good idea to trade your silver and gold for lead and steel (shot that is)

Musky1011 · February 21, 2009 1:56AM

Silver dimes

Smaller so you could buy or trade for individual items

roadrunner · February 21, 2009 1:57AM

If we head into a depression, plain old cash will do just fine.

Good luck with that as currencies are destroyed one by one in this "depression." During the 1930's depression they didn't have to worry about the complete destruction of the financial system, that remained intact and strong for the upper crust banks who had 90% of the dough. It's just the opposite this time around with smaller banks with solid loans probably surviving. We also had a larger manufacturing and farming base to fall back on in the 1930's. While the USD is currently benefiting from the current deflation, look at the Pound, Euro, Swissie, Aus $, Rupie, Rouble, Cando, Yen, etc. All are experiencing huge losses against gold in recent weeks/months....during this deflation. What makes you think the US dollar and Yuan will be totally immune going forward?

In a SHTF scenario, one needs to have small silver coinage in hand as the primary means of bartering/buying/trading. I guess those wafer gold things are of use. Even the 1/10th ounce gold coins are a $100+ bill. It does make sense to keep a few thousand in cash around in $1's, $5's, $10's, and $20's. The old 100 or 1000 ounce silver bar is gonna be tough to use to buy a pack of smokes. Silver dimes make the most sense imo.

roadrunner

mrearlygold · February 21, 2009 2:25AM

<< IF we head into a depression????

where have you been hybernating? in cave? Its here, now and getting worse.

Don't wait for the powers to "declare" a depression. They won't use the D word until they know its over. >>

Nope, Saint Guru, ( Saint! Saint you out thar? ) says we're not. I bet him 10 bucks we are.

Weiss · February 21, 2009 2:46AM

Pre 1965 90% US silver is the best metals choice for the same reasons it's always been the best choice. Think about these key points in a relatively safe economic environment, and then think about them in a dangerous SHTF environment, and anywhere in between. Each point changes based on the situation, and each becomes more important the more unstable things become:

A) Recognition. People from this country and all over the world recognize it, are familiar with it, and are comfortable with it--even people who don't know anything about metals. I'd wager 90% of the US population has no idea what a gold eagle or gold buffalo is, let alone a Philharmonic or Panda. Apples to apples: They'd be just as unlikely to recognize a silver American eagle--and a silver bar or round? Forget it. But they'd recognize a 1964 dime in a heartbeat.

Divisibility. This is critical. It's already roughly 1/10th, 1/4th, 1/2, and 1 oz increments. You don’t need to estimate, cut, and weigh a piece from a larger bar. And re-weigh and agree (or disagree) on the weight for each subsequent transaction. A silver dime is a silver dime this transaction and next transaction, and the next and the next.

C) Purity. Its alloy and silver content is unquestioned and it is hallmarked by one of the largest and best-known assayers in the world. The US mint’s product purity is unquestioned going back 200 years. The 90% silver, 10% copper ratio is tried, tested, proven and unchanged for 170 years.

D) Face value. Each piece is marked with a proportional face value relative to each other piece in the series. A half dollar contains twice as much silver and is therefore valued at twice as much as a quarter. It contains five times the silver of a dime, and is therefore valued at five times as much as a dime. No matter the circumstance--recession, depression, hyperinflation, inflation, deflation, 90% US silver has been, is currently, and always will be accepted by anyone taking US money in exchange for goods or services.

E) Numismatic value. Not every piece, not every grade--at least not yet. But there have been massive meltings in the last 40 years, and it’s becoming clear that 90% US silver is much more scarce than people credit. And early BU 90% is rare. Every day that passes, this becomes more true—its population decreases—not less true as with all newly minted bullion pieces whose population increases as more are made.

F) Low premium. 90% US silver doesn't usually carry a heavy premium relative to other forms of metals. And it can still be found with no premium at all if you look for it. And even at today's premium, dimes, quarters, and halves don't carry anywhere near the premium that 1/10th or 1/4 eagles and buffalos do. Low premium (and recognition as previously mentioned) is the reason that pre ’64 US silver is superior to silver eagles.

G) Trustworthiness. Because of its small size, ease of recognition, and relatively low value per piece, 90% US silver is one of the least profitable and therefore least tempting targets for counterfeiters here and abroad. That’s not true of gold coins of any type. And silver and gold bars can and have been “drilled & filled” (drilled out, metal removed and filled with base metal). That’s virtually impossible and not cost effective for 90% US silver coins.

Additional thoughts: "We" the collectors, hoarders, etc., can tell instantly, with virtual certainty, if a 90% US silver coin is legit--no equipment necessary, no balance beam, no scratch test or water displacement. No filing, no loss of metal, no paying someone else and/or trusting someone else to test. We can do this by several sense tests that we always have with us.

We check visually:
US coin? Check.
Overall "look" right? Check.
Exact size correct? Check.
Pre '65 date? Check.
Full silver colored edge? Check.
No flaking, pitting, etc. that would indicate counterfeit? Check.

We check by touch:
Does it have the right heft--one that we've known for years? Check.
Does it have the right surface? Check.
Reeds all present, hasn't been shaved? Check.
Does its hardness feel correct? Check.

We check by sound. We know the sound a 90% US silver coin makes when it's rung or dropped.
Check check check.

All of these steps take less than an instant, we always have the equipment with us, and we trust the results. And if we can tell this easily with this degree of certainty, anyone can with practice. Not so with foreign coins, bars, or rounds.

It's no coincidence that these factors are there. They've all come about from literally thousands of years of testing, trial, and experimentation, representing untold billions of transactions. Every culture, every age. Weaknesses exploited by the most cunning criminals in the world, corrected, improved, tried, corrected, improved, etc. until they are as perfect as can be, where all of these factors function automatically without us even thinking about them.

Ultimately, for all of the above reasons, 90% US silver wins because of Gresham's Law and supply & demand. Because it's known, because it's recognized, because it's safe, because it's trusted, in whatever level of crisis where metals may be needed, 90% US silver will be the preferred medium of exchange. This preference will make it the most desirable, which will make it the most valuable, and so on and so on. And all of this will simultaneously lower the value of all other metals choices relative to 90% US silver.

57loaded · February 21, 2009 3:04AM

the 90% silver scenario, i wouldn't barter with gold

because i think in the end when/if there is a revised gold backed currency, maybe a Federal Reserve gold certificate ratio, tied to M3 (a shadow-stat now that i think needs to be transparent before a recovery can begin) then you trade into your hoard of gold for the paper stuff.

and you just might find yourself able to come out of this disaster better than most.

if you make any of your honey into mead though, drop a me a PM and i'll be right over to sample some

jmski52 · February 21, 2009 3:52AM

90% is fine. AGEs are fine. ASEs are fine. Classic Gold is probably ok. Depending on the size of a purchase, you'd probably do well to have a little of each, since the whole situation is in flux.

At some point, 80% Canadian silver is probably ok, and the recognizable foreign gold coins (sovereigns, maples, krugs, francs) will probably be ok, too.

BBQnBLUES · February 21, 2009 4:00AM

Bear;

I would have to go with 1 oz generic Silver rounds.

Easier to trade for goods & portable.

Peaceman · February 21, 2009 5:31AM

I guess you need to look at the premiums paid for each size. I only deal in 100ozers right now with spot at $ 14.45 100oz are selling at $ 1650 on average. How about everyone else... what are 1oz, 10 oz etc selling at a premium...

derryb · February 21, 2009 7:21AM

couple of bricks of presidential dollars ought to hold you over. Most people don't know what they are and they are gold in color.

Bear · February 21, 2009 7:29AM

I guess that I can always use one of the bricks to hit

someone in the head and get a loaf of bread that way.

rooksmith · February 21, 2009 2:06PM

<< In a SHTF scenario, one needs to have small silver coinage in hand as the primary means of bartering/buying/trading. I guess those wafer gold things are of use. Even the 1/10th ounce gold coins are a $100+ bill. It does make sense to keep a few thousand in cash around in $1's, $5's, $10's, and $20's. The old 100 or 1000 ounce silver bar is gonna be tough to use to buy a pack of smokes. Silver dimes make the most sense imo. >>

You must remember that 90% of the US population doesnt own any silver. Although I agree its "real money", in order for an exchange to take place, both party's must agree on the intrinsic value of the metal. Will silver be denominated in dollars, or will all of a sudden the entire world change to a silver standard. That would take a decision by all the world govts.

coynclecter · February 21, 2009 4:41PM

both party's must agree on the intrinsic value of the metal.

I have the upmost confidence that the Black Market will operate efficiently. There will quickly be standards of exchange set for most metals, food, gas, etc

The unusual part will be the ability to exchange without the banksters, credit card boys and insurance companies ( and every other ripoff scheme) taking thier "juice" out of every transaction.

ebaytrader · February 22, 2009 12:35AM

If depression is defined as 1930's style deflation then cash would be king. On the other hand, if depression is defined as a Jimmy Carter style stagflation then gold and silver will reign.

COINB0Y · February 22, 2009 10:49AM

<< My father was 82nd Airborne and also Jumped on D'day....They were lead into battle by the youngest 4 Star General in American History.(35)....General Gavin...My father was his driver....My father also drove Glen Miller to the Airport the night they disappeared over the English Chanel.....but he never really spoke of the War either...except the fun times they had...in 1994 he and the 82nd Airborne Association of Chicago returned to Europe for the 60th Anniversary....which he should have never done, because it brought back the memories, that he should have forgotten! >>

That is awsome!

COINB0Y · February 22, 2009 11:01AM

Excellent Analysis!

<< Well If I were thinking a major depression was coming stock up on goods to barter, hey booze did great in the last depression

Really a handgun is about the last weapon you'd want as groups of people wander the countryside. It's a last resort weapon for the house and good to carry on your person (with CCW of course). Really you would have to be on watch 24 X 7 even your garden wouldn't be safe from an assult or smoke coming from your fireplace would attract people. Have a generator? Many will take it off your hands. Weapons should be deployed IMO in this order:

1. Rifle (223 or 7.62 X 39 best due to cost of ammo). Your deer rifle won't do you much good with that whole box of ammo you have for it. I can see that this board hasn't tried to purchase ammo lately everyone is selling out quick. This is your long and med. range weapons. If something like this really played out guns would be a dime a dozen but ammo would be gold.

2. Shotgun with slugs or #1 buckshot (best) but everyone will have 00 buck which is okay. This is your medium to short range weapon and nothing at these ranges is better. The Mossberg Mavrick 88 is under $200 and is designed for home defense. Forget the fancy handgrips and cool stuff while they look cool they'll slow you down.

3. Last resort handgun that is kept on the person. If you face someone with the above weapons good luck.

While were on the subject train, train, train. I've had my CCW for 5 years now and have handgun training. I've hunted all my life and I'm best with a shotgun. So my plan if to take a urban rifle course since I've shot a lot of 22 LR but I'm not a rifle guy in general so I'll work on my weakest skill. Here's the class I'll take in the next few months but man trying to find 1500 rounds of 223 and 300 rounds of pistol ammo is not only costly it's scarce.

USSA Tactical Rifle >>

coynclecter · February 22, 2009 2:42PM

Gee you seem to have forgotten about the Claymores you'll need around the yard. And maybe a bazooka in case they come to your house with a tank. Be sure you have A few carbines and a couple thousand rounds to help support the machine gun turret you install on the roof too.

I think it would be sufficient to have a few handguns of decent caliber (not some 22) and a lot of ammo. Most rioters/looters are going to look elsewhere when you fire a few rounds at them. There will be plenty of unprotected homes available.

Konahead · February 22, 2009 3:07PM

<< If we head into a depression, plain old cash will do just fine.

Keep the PMs for a period of inflation. Which is not what we're seeing now. >>

you mean YET!

Cnitas · February 23, 2009 12:59AM

<< Gee you seem to have forgotten about the Claymores you'll need around the yard. And maybe a bazooka in case they come to your house with a tank. Be sure you have A few carbines and a couple thousand rounds to help support the machine gun turret you install on the roof too.

I think it would be sufficient to have a few handguns of decent caliber (not some 22) and a lot of ammo. Most rioters/looters are going to look elsewhere when you fire a few rounds at them. There will be plenty of unprotected homes available. >>

You make fun, but handguns alone simply do not cut it in a lawless senerio. Im my world 'most' is not good enough. I need ALL rioters and looters to aviod my house. A semi-auto 7.62 rifle is a great way to show force as a deterrent, and then to back it up if needed. You could even hunt with it if things came to that. But only if you have plenty of ammo.

Gemineye · February 23, 2009 4:20AM

Does Silver Barbed Wire stop werewolves and vampires.....

bluelobster · February 23, 2009 8:27AM

<< If we head into a depression than more than likely it's because we printed too much money and paper will be worthless.
Barter items much better IMO. >>

If we head into/ are in a depression it it is because of the destruction of capital and credit..in other words deflation...not inflation

moonshine · February 23, 2009 9:38AM

A good mix of all mentioned items in OP would be best. Some to protect investment/sell later/after it's over. Some to use for BST - And save the big'uns (coins) to pay your house and land taxes with.

Rockdogz · February 23, 2009 11:11AM

90% silver makes sense if you're bartering with folks who understand it, but for 95% of the people out there, won't they just think it's old coins - worth just face value? I like the idea of bartering with goods (ammo, food, medicine, fuel, etc.) or silver eagles because they at least look 'different' and impressive compared to (90%) pocket change...

Kareemofwheat · February 23, 2009 11:45AM

<< 90% silver makes sense if you're bartering with folks who understand it, but for 95% of the people out there, won't they just think it's old coins - worth just face value? I like the idea of bartering with goods (ammo, food, medicine, fuel, etc.) or silver eagles because they at least look 'different' and impressive compared to (90%) pocket change... >>

Believe me...they will catch on quick!

sittinguy · February 24, 2009 10:26AM

I agree they will catch on quick,, but I like stuff that says .999 on it, even if it has a picture of Bozo on it. If it feels like silver and says .999, its probably OK. I don't have any Bozo's but I do have plenty of x-mas coins.

Overdate · February 24, 2009 3:53PM

Short of a total collapse of law and order (or a Zimbabwe-style inflation) I think the safest, most convenient and most efficient way to conduct day-to-day transactions will be to use a credit card. That way, a retail customer will not "stand out from the herd" as an owner/trader of precious metals. Gold/silver coins can be sold to bullion dealers when necessary to raise cash.

Weiss · February 24, 2009 11:17PM

<< Short of a total collapse of law and order (or a Zimbabwe-style inflation)... >>

Those are two unpleasant but quite real scenarios best not overlooked.

sittinguy · February 25, 2009 6:38AM

Even If I did stand out using silver coin to trade for something, I think most folks would know that most silver and gold is insured by lead. I think precious metals are a big part of (planning for the future). But there are many other peices of that puzzle, guns/ammo, food, no debt, power generation, ect..

But I still think the .999 silver will be the best

mrearlygold · February 25, 2009 6:44AM

Use ya brain, don't take no crap!

OnlyGoldIsMoney · February 25, 2009 7:15AM

<< My father was 82nd Airborne and also Jumped on D'day....They were lead into battle by the youngest 4 Star General in American History.(35)....General Gavin...My father was his driver....My father also drove Glen Miller to the Airport the night they disappeared over the English Chanel.....but he never really spoke of the War either...except the fun times they had...in 1994 he and the 82nd Airborne Association of Chicago returned to Europe for the 60th Anniversary....which he should have never done, because it brought back the memories, that he should have forgotten! >>

dlimb2, my uncle jumped with your father on D'Day - landed near St. Mere Eglise with the 508th Parachute Infantry, 82nd Airborne, 2nd Battalion, F Company, 1st Squad. Light machine gunner wounded in Normandy and later at the Bulge. He also returned to France during the 1990's. He has never liked talking about his experiences with his brother (my father).

mrearlygold · February 25, 2009 7:26AM

<< 

<< My father was 82nd Airborne and also Jumped on D'day....They were lead into battle by the youngest 4 Star General in American History.(35)....General Gavin...My father was his driver....My father also drove Glen Miller to the Airport the night they disappeared over the English Chanel.....but he never really spoke of the War either...except the fun times they had...in 1994 he and the 82nd Airborne Association of Chicago returned to Europe for the 60th Anniversary....which he should have never done, because it brought back the memories, that he should have forgotten! >>

dlimb2, my uncle jumped with your father on D'Day - landed near St. Mere Eglise with the 508th Parachute Infantry, 82nd Airborne, 2nd Battalion, F Company, 1st Squad. Light machine gunner wounded in Normandy and later at the Bulge. He also returned to France during the 1990's. He has never liked talking about his experiences with his brother (my father). >>

My Father was also in the big one. He was in the Submarine Service in the Pacific.

They don't make em like that anymore.

streeter · February 25, 2009 11:38AM

bear, To have bags of circ silver coinage

Silver bars 1-10 OZ

Silver bars 50, 100 oz

Gold small amounts 1/10, 1/4 oz

Gold 1 oz

Considerations are really two;

Most efficient purchase price............Obviously bigger is better priced

Most efficient size to buy things
in the case of a collapse of money...Obviously smaller is more efficient to spend or trade
in a Hyperinflationary Depression.

If I was a betting man, which I am not--I would think that AMMO would be highly desirable in a worst case scenario. And Gasoline.

Think Road Warrior.

cohodk · February 25, 2009 12:04PM

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/fuel-tanks-83002006-1.html

tincup · February 25, 2009 12:09PM

I've heard that gasoline will go bad on you after a few years. If you are planning to store any, best to cycle it regularly with fresh as long as you can get it.

cohodk · February 25, 2009 12:17PM

Store heating oil and buy a diesel vehicle. You can use heating oil in lieu of diesel and in your home furnace.

If we head into a long term Depression......Is it better

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