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Hughwood Coin/Postal Insurance Worked for Me...
SullivanNumismatics
Posts: 848 ✭✭✭✭
I recently had the unfortunate experience of losing a $17,000 coin in the mail (it was shipped to a U.S. address via registered, insured mail), and because I did not have a cancelled check/bank wire showing what I had paid for the coin(it was a cash/trade deal), they denied the claim. Because I had private postal insurance with Hughwood, I was able to file a claim with them and they paid me back for the coin in full. So if you mail a lot of high dollar coins, you should consider some non-USPS insurance such as Hughwood, especially if your transactions are sometimes trades or cash. It's just a good "back-up" option in case the USPS denies your claim. (I feel like I'm a salesman for Hughwood posting this, but I love a good product that actually works the way it's supposed to, and Hughwood postal insurance does so I wanted to let everyone know about it.)
www.sullivannumismatics.com Dealer in Mint Error Coins.
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RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I also send coins in the mail and recently changed my coverage to add that into the policy.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Proves the point that even Registered Mail is not infallible contrary to what many around here think.
-Paul
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Glad to hear it worked out for you. Is the cost reasonable with Hughwood? >>
I don't recall but it was reasonable. It depends on ow much stuff you mail, the average value, and some other factors.
<< <i>Jon - Did you declare the full 17K value to the USPS when you shipped the package? Not sure why you would do that if you have private insurance. >>
This is a good question.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Jon - Did you declare the full 17K value to the USPS when you shipped the package? Not sure why you would do that if you have private insurance. >>
Andy, the coin was being shipped back to me by a customer, and they insured it with the USPS for $18,000, even though they didn't have to since my insurance covers shipments both ways. They where just being "extra careful."
<< <i>
<< <i>Jon - Did you declare the full 17K value to the USPS when you shipped the package? Not sure why you would do that if you have private insurance. >>
Andy, the coin was being shipped back to me by a customer, and they insured it even though they didn't have to since my insurance covers shipments both ways. >>
Wow--That is a good move. I think the coin-returning customer should thank you. Still doesn't seem right though--the denial, I mean. The customer is technically the insured and should only need to prove what he paid or what was invoiced for the coin. Still, I'm glad that Hugh Wood came through.
Tom
Wow. That makes this situation even stranger to me. Because I would think that the claim should have been filed by your customer, and I know he had your invoice to document his cost. Shows you how little I know about insurance.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Jon - Did you declare the full 17K value to the USPS when you shipped the package? Not sure why you would do that if you have private insurance. >>
Andy, the coin was being shipped back to me by a customer, and they insured it even though they didn't have to since my insurance covers shipments both ways. >>
Wow--That is a good move. I think the coin-returning customer should thank you. Still doesn't seem right though--the denial, I mean. The customer is technically the insured and should only need to prove what he paid or what was invoiced for the coin. Still, I'm glad that Hugh Wood came through. >>
Well, the customer did file the claim, but the USPS went to me to determine value since I was the owner of the coin and not the customer. I had sent the coin to my customer on approval, and they didn't want it so they where returning it.
<< <i>Andy, the coin was being shipped back to me by a customer, and they insured it with the USPS for $18,000, even though they didn't have to since my insurance covers shipments both ways. They where just being "extra careful."
Wow. That makes this situation even stranger to me. Because I would think that the claim should have been filed by your customer, and I know he had your invoice to document his cost. Shows you how little I know about insurance.
I owned the coin, so the USPS contacted me to determine the coin's value.
I think the USPS hosed you and your customer, and Hugh Wood.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I was thinking I might have to do that, but was hoping the PO would take the claim.
<< <i>Andy, the coin was being shipped back to me by a customer, and they insured it with the USPS for $18,000, even though they didn't have to since my insurance covers shipments both ways. They where just being "extra careful."
Wow. That makes this situation even stranger to me. Because I would think that the claim should have been filed by your customer, and I know he had your invoice to document his cost. Shows you how little I know about insurance.
I think you are right though. I suspect Hugh Wood steps up and has subrogation rights on the USPS claim which I would assume they will pursue. Still, that makes Hugh Woods look very good, IMO.
Tom
<< <i>Well, the customer did file the claim, but the USPS went to me to determine value since I was the owner of the coin and not the customer. I had sent the coin to my customer on approval, and they didn't want it so they where returning it.
I think the USPS hosed you and your customer, and Hugh Wood. >>
I agree to a point.
They will only make a determination based upon provided info. If the info is lacking, then the claim can be rejected
The domestic mail manual 609 4.1 g. provides the fair market value will be paid based upon recognized coin dealer value, coin trade newsletters or pricing mags.
I'll bet that pcgs pricing guide would be accepted. Perhaps someone else in the biz could have valued it. They may even have taken any auction records as supporting docs.
They seem to automatically deny claims the first couple times. Look at this proof of value right from their own form. You would be covered without an invoice.
c. Picture from a catalog showing the value of a similar article (only if a sales receipt, invoice, or statement of value from a reputable dealer is not available). The date and place of purchase must be included.
Tom
That's great news for two reasons.........
I'm glad you got paid by Hugh Wood.
(two separate names)
<< <i>Jon,
That's great news for two reasons.........
I'm glad you got paid by Hugh Wood.
(two separate names) >>
I was thinking as I wrote "Hughwood"....is it "Hugh Wood" or "Hughwood." I don't think they'll mind.
- Ian
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
As far as showing the USPS the value of the coin why not make up a bill of sale for 18K with return privileges for the customer that was shipping it back to you?
<< <i>I've never understood why it matters what is in the box or it's value. If you pay for 18K worth of insurance you should receive 18K even if you ship an empty box and it does not show up.
As far as showing the USPS the value of the coin why not make up a bill of sale for 18K with return privileges for the customer that was shipping it back to you? >>
1) that's the rules
2) losing a box of air insured for $1000 does not mean you lost $1000. You lost nothing, you get nothing.
You are reimbursed for the loss.
<< <i>
2) losing a box of air insured for $1000 does not mean you lost $1000. You lost nothing, you get nothing.
>>
I can think of a few instances where a box of air could be worth way more than a grand!
<< <i>
<< <i>You are reimbursed for the loss. >>
Which is BS. I pay for x amount of insurance and you lose my crap, you should owe me x amount of dollars. >>
The FTB insurance co. would lose business and close doing this.
It would have higher payouts & higher premiums pushing customers to the cheap guys.
It is interesting to note that one car insurance company is offering coverage to buy a model year newer vehicle for a total. But, to me, this is a risk the ins. co. is taking in light of competition.
I have private insurance with Collect Insure now, and don't even bother with USPS insurance unless I am mailing gold.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>USPS insurance is a waste of time. They will find a way to deny the claim. I once shipped an Antique Lamp with insurance. It broke in transit, and the insurance claim was denied stating it was adequately packaged. I would like to see their definition of adequately packaged.
I have private insurance with Collect Insure now, and don't even bother with USPS insurance unless I am mailing gold. >>
My only experience with USPS insurance was when a PR65 Three Cent Nickel showed up (to me) with a damaged holder. I showed it to the local postmaster upon receipt, he told me to recertify the coin and file a claim afterwards. The coin downgraded to PR64 upon resubmission, and a claim was filed for the grading fees and difference in price between a PR65 and PR64 and it was paid in full very quickly.
-Paul
Additionally there are some insurance companies that will actually deny your claim if you take ANY additional insurance.
I know heritage's insurance requires that you do not take usps or fedex insurance, as taking insurance indicates there are valuables inside.
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
DMM 609 4.1 o.
<< <i>Glad they paid. Because I would have guessed they would have made you pursue the case further with USPS as you were insured with them.
Additionally there are some insurance companies that will actually deny your claim if you take ANY additional insurance.
I know heritage's insurance requires that you do not take usps or fedex insurance, as taking insurance indicates there are valuables inside. >>
With Hugh Wood, I know you can also get USPS insurance, but if they pay then obviously they will not also pay. They do have some other rules about shipping, such as you cannot mark the package as having any reference to "Numismatics, coins, etc", and you cannot ship packages on weekends, so they wont sit in a warehouse over the weekend, which apparently makes the item more likely to go missing.
If you use the box in box method that outfits like shipandinsure require, you generally do not have any issues.
<< <i>USPS insurance is a waste of time. They will find a way to deny the claim. I once shipped an Antique Lamp with insurance. It broke in transit, and the insurance claim was denied stating it was adequately packaged. I would like to see their definition of adequately packaged.
I have private insurance with Collect Insure now, and don't even bother with USPS insurance unless I am mailing gold. >>
Recently received a small flat rate priority box from a seller that was supposed to have 2 tubes of ASEs in it. Box had been opened on one end and stamped "received unsealed" by my local post office. I refused delivery, had item returned to seller, updated seller on events. Seller said the only insurance he had on it was the free $100 offered with priority. Heard from him a week later. He had contacted USPS and received the full value from the post office. I assume that since the theft occurred while in the hands of the post office they made him whole.
I personally don't believe a sender should have to buy insurance to protect himself from post office theft. Damage in transit I can understand.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Except registered mail besides negotiable items and cash, bullion is also a screw you item. You only get $15 for non-registered mail insurance claims.
DMM 609 4.1 o. >>
Domestic Mail Manual - Filing claims for loss
"Except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items (defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery), currency, or bullion, is $15.00."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I was wondering what other options existed for coin dealers. I wasn't familiar with Collect Insure that was mentioned earlier, so I'll take a look at them. Thanks !
<< <i>I tried getting a quote from Hugh Wood on two separate occasions. Once was at a major show where I provided quite a bit of information about myself and my business, and the other time was by mail. In both cases, they didn't get back with me. I'm glad Jon got his money back, but I'm leery of an insurance company that tough to get a quote from. My assumption is that they will be harder to deal with if I ever had a claim.
I was wondering what other options existed for coin dealers. I wasn't familiar with Collect Insure that was mentioned earlier, so I'll take a look at them. Thanks ! >>
The same happened to me........But don't let it deter you. Just call them and they will take care of you right away.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
What i paid for the coin isn't the issue. I may have paid $1000 for the coin in 1990.
What is the coin worth today...which I would send them to the PCGS price guide to find the answer.
Or recent Heritage auction results.
-KHayse
<< <i>I've never understood why it matters what is in the box or it's value. If you pay for 18K worth of insurance you should receive 18K even if you ship an empty box and it does not show up. >>
Ever hear of a thing called insurance fraud? Under your theory everyone would simply be mailing empty boxes to their friends; the friend claims loss of contents and the insurance company would pay whatever outrageous amount was placed on the nonexistent item. Sorry but it doesn't work that way. You have to show proof of value. You don't get something for nothing.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I have heard good things about Hugh Wood over the years, although I have never used their products/services. I have, however, used a couple of other major insurance companies specializing in the rare coin business, and I have closely negotiated a contract with another major company. In all cases, insuring a package for the full amount via Registered mail is against the terms and coverage is not active. For Express Mail (of FedEx Overnight), you claim no value at all.
With the other insurance companies I mentioned, for USPS Registered Mail, you insure a small amount, such as $3,000, even if the package is worth $250,000 (the high limit). Box in a box, no reference to value in the names, package cost not shown on the label, and other commonsense techniques. Does Hugh Wood allow you to insure the package for the full amount?
Regarding the USPS insurance claims, I have had experiences with both domestic and international claims. I was recently told that it is standard policy to deny all claims the first 2 or 3 times. I was told by a USPS claims rep that I had to keep fighting to get paid, and the only way is if the claim makes it to Washington D.C. The few times I took it that far, we were paid on our claims. They are hoping that you will give up and that they will not have to pay, even though the USPS insurance machine is incredibly profitable. I think that their insurance operation subsidizes the actual USPS delivery behemoth.
<< <i>I have heard good things about Hugh Wood over the years, although I have never used their products/services. I have, however, used a couple of other major insurance companies specializing in the rare coin business, and I have closely negotiated a contract with another major company. In all cases, insuring a package for the full amount via Registered mail is against the terms and coverage is not active. For Express Mail (of FedEx Overnight), you claim no value at all.
With the other insurance companies I mentioned, for USPS Registered Mail, you insure a small amount, such as $3,000, even if the package is worth $250,000 (the high limit). Box in a box, no reference to value in the names, package cost not shown on the label, and other commonsense techniques. Does Hugh Wood allow you to insure the package for the full amount?
Regarding the USPS insurance claims, I have had experiences with both domestic and international claims. I was recently told that it is standard policy to deny all claims the first 2 or 3 times. I was told by a USPS claims rep that I had to keep fighting to get paid, and the only way is if the claim makes it to Washington D.C. The few times I took it that far, we were paid on our claims. They are hoping that you will give up and that they will not have to pay, even though the USPS insurance machine is incredibly profitable. I think that their insurance operation subsidizes the actual USPS delivery behemoth. >>
Hugh Wood does allow you to insure with USPS as well, but they said that if you do insure it that insurance would be the ones to pay first before they would step in. Also, you don't have to do a box in a box (although that's obviously a good idea.) They do require no mention of coins/numismatics on the box, and no weekend shipping.
<< <i>They do require no mention of coins/numismatics on the box, and no weekend shipping. >>
My policy with Hugh Wood allows weekend shipping, but the insurance limit is reduced by 50% compared to a weekday. If my shipping limit is $75,000 on a weekday, a weekend shipment is only insurable up to $37,500.