Coins that are heavily die striated - elgible for the MS-67 grade?

oreville · July 28, 2012 1:01AM

For many many years I have been told by countless experts that a business strike coin laden with numerous die striations/die polishing lines can achieve any grade all the way up to MS-66 but that the buck stops at MS-67.

I have seen first hand that numerous die striations are seen as a negative at anything above MS-66 level in which PCGS simply will not grade coins at the MS-67 level simply BECAUSE of the noticeable die striations.

I have seen NGC be more forgiving of such die striations and sometimes allow MS-67 grades but then CAC does not generally sticker them.

Your thoughts and comments please!

coinbuf · July 28, 2012 1:41AM

Well it all comes down to how much thay affect the eye appeal, PCGS may feel coin that are heavily striated have too much negitive eye appeal for the MS67 level.

tradedollarnut · July 28, 2012 1:42AM

It depends on the coin. Some dates are known for striations so it's more accepted. And I'm sure there's no hard and fast rule.

Unknown · July 28, 2012 2:08AM

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coinkat · July 28, 2012 4:49AM

good question - there should not be any hard and fast rule on this

dragon · July 28, 2012 6:18AM

I remember I've owned at least a couple of 1879-S Morgans in PCGS 67 holders that had the typical vertical running die striations and somewhat hazy / lackluster reverses, however the obverses were superb which apparently made up for it.

MrEureka · July 28, 2012 6:52AM

For many many years I have been told by countless experts that a business strike coin laden with numerous die striations/die polishing lines can achieve any grade all the way up to MS-66 but that the buck stops at MS-67.

Strange that you've heard that from "countless experts". This is the first time I've ever heard that.

Nic · July 28, 2012 7:55AM

Hi Robert,

Apart from Morgan's and patterns (aluminum and gold), I think it depends on whether the services are currently market grading or technical grading. Sort of like "roller" marks on Barber's.

K

Coinosaurus · July 28, 2012 8:32AM

To me they are a distraction, even if every known coin comes from the same die pair. I'm fine w/keeping them out of 67 holders, even if it is a "67 for the date."

crypto79 · July 28, 2012 10:39AM

I am ok with it, the super grades are reserved for super coins. Not just surpurbably preserved but surpurbably made as well.

lcoopie · July 28, 2012 10:45AM

how about the ms69s on the 2009 high relief double eagle?

I believe they were graded that high and it was a common situation, but I might be wrong.

19Lyds · July 28, 2012 11:21AM

It's all about the coin, it's luster and eye appeal and since the striations occur "before" the strike, they're perfectly acceptable.

This 72-D IKE is an MS67 as the striations are only visible under magnification as the strike really softens them up.

crypto79 · July 28, 2012 11:26AM

<< <i>It's all about the coin, it's luster and eye appeal and since the striations occur "before" the strike, they're perfectly acceptable.

This 72-D IKE is an MS67 as the striations are only visible under magnification as the strike really softens them up.

>>

Lee, I believe that those are planchet striations and not die transferred striations on your coin. I could be wrong

lkeigwin · July 28, 2012 11:52AM

Here's a 68 with plenty of polish lines on the reverse.
Lance.

oreville · July 28, 2012 12:01PM

I think you guys are speaking of die striations that are visible ONLY under magnification.

I am speaking of naked eye distracting die striations!!!

crypto79 · July 29, 2012 3:41AM

<< <i>I think you guys are speaking of die striations that are visible ONLY under magnification.

I am speaking of naked eye distracting die striations!!! >>

Like these

breakdown · July 29, 2012 9:57AM

Crypto's post reminds me that die striations can effect a prooflike appearance, as seen in the Peace dollar.

My 38-D Walker is one of my favorites of my later date Walkers because of its prooflike appearance. Consistent with Oreville's premise, it is graded MS66 although I think that may likely be due to the less than full strike.

Unknown · July 29, 2012 10:48AM

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TwoSides2aCoin · July 29, 2012 10:49AM

A die that's reconditioned in the tool room is done so to conserve costs, as well as extend the life of the equipment. In that respect alone, I don't think coins struck on the second go 'round, after it (the die) has been serviced, should be graded above MS 65, but that's my opinion.
If the tell tale signs indicate reconditioned equipment, then as grading is concerned, I wonder if the finished product is really that good.
Now on the other hand, if a perfect planchet is struck with a newly reconditioned die, then a grader will have needed to see several examples to ascertain the wear pattern that created the striations, in the first place. It gets very complex at this juncture, and for me... I'm glad tool and die guys have jobs and sometimes I pity the graders who have to determine all the nuances of coins.

Unknown · July 29, 2012 10:55AM

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TwoSides2aCoin · July 29, 2012 10:59AM

I was making a blanket statement , Realone. Not for any particular coin. I have seen some beauties and had a few graded with plenty of these striations/ die polish lines that actually graded MS 66. I hadn't considered playing "gtg" with your coin. But thanks. It's a looker.

Unknown · July 29, 2012 11:03AM

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TwoSides2aCoin · July 29, 2012 11:04AM

Excuse my opinion. I'll keep it to me next time.

Unknown · July 29, 2012 11:05AM

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TwoSides2aCoin · July 29, 2012 11:07AM

What ? You can't read my sense of humor ? Don't make me call you.

TwoSides2aCoin · July 29, 2012 11:09AM

Next time you get YES or NO. That's it. I won't talk about "tolerances" in the tool room

Unknown · July 29, 2012 11:12AM

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TwoSides2aCoin · July 29, 2012 11:15AM

No Orville, coins that are laden with heavy die striations shouldn't be graded that high. But don't quote me, please.

Unknown · July 29, 2012 11:22AM

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illini420 · July 29, 2012 11:26AM

I think die polish lines on a MS67 are acceptable. I actually think they look pretty cool on my MS67 steel cent, especially those on the reverse:

TwoSides2aCoin · July 29, 2012 11:37AM

Maybe I should change my opinion.

YES ORVILLE> ... Coins that are heavily die striated should be eligible for the MS 67 grade.

I'm sorry I"m so slow here.

Buzzybest · July 29, 2012 11:39AM

Joe,are you drinking again?

Unknown · July 29, 2012 11:41AM

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joebb21 · July 29, 2012 11:49AM

Ive seen them on ms68 steel cents and ms67 (for sure) morgan dollars (just sold 4 ms67 cac'ers that had stiations. All common date 1881-s)
ps- morgans were stickered and penny was not

TwoSides2aCoin · July 29, 2012 11:49AM

I was speaking of "close tolerances" in the tool and die room earlier. I got off track thinking too deep. Having a machining background, one can't help but think deep, like those grooves in a die that's been reconditioned. Anyway, thanks for the laughs, gents.

Unknown · July 30, 2012 3:07AM

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tahoe98 · July 31, 2012 2:55AM

...just an aside but i think it's Inspector Clouseau.

Coins that are heavily die striated - elgible for the MS-67 grade?

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