PCGS fighting counterfeits
Halfsense
Posts: 600 ✭✭✭
PCGS representatives will be among the professional numismatists visiting with influential members of Congress in Washington, DC on Wednesday, urging them to take action against counterfeiters (and the increase in Chinese-made fakes entering the United States). Here's info:
PCGS Implores Congress to Fight Imports and Sales of Counterfeit Coins
-donn-
PCGS Implores Congress to Fight Imports and Sales of Counterfeit Coins
-donn-
"If it happens in numismatics, it's news to me....
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thanks for the link
it is quite simple to me at this point, life is war, because we are always fighting against something
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Crazy how you start a counterfeiting operation in China, and receive backing from your own Government.
My friend is a sales Rep for Stihl USA, and they've have experienced the same thing. Chainsaws coming out of China
look just like a genuine Stihl. To the untrained eye a consumer wouldn't know the difference.
Is the idea to have Congress put pressure on the Executive branch to enforce the laws?
that is my question.
sad state of affairs IMO.
1) stop importation of counterfeits.
2) Make selling counterfeits a crime, not just a unsavory activity. Enforce it too.
3) educate buyers about counterfeits.
<< <i>In the end, isn't counterfeiting good for PCGS and other TPG? Without the threat of non-genuine coins I would think that the role of TPG would be diminished. >>
What about the fake coins in the fake slabs?
who pays better
the exporters or reporters???
<< <i>Sadly our small little hobby is not of interest to the government elected officials. >>
i think its said that alot of things are not those of interest to those elected officals. ok, rant over for now
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<< <i>In the end, isn't counterfeiting good for PCGS and other TPG? Without the threat of non-genuine coins I would think that the role of TPG would be diminished. >>
What about the fake coins in the fake slabs? >>
If fake slabs got to the point were TPG companies lost business as a result that is a different thing. The threat of counterfeits has to greatly increase the TPGing business and has to be a net positive to their bottom line.
<< <i>The Treasury Department (Secret Service) is assigned with suppressing counterfeits money, but they are concerned with circulating currency. Once it becomes a collectible, I would think the Commerce department would be involved.
1) stop importation of counterfeits.
2) Make selling counterfeits a crime, not just a unsavory activity. Enforce it too.
3) educate buyers about counterfeits. >>
The Secret Service is the law enforcement branch of the Treasury Department, and no they are not limited to just circulating currency. I thought someone as "long in the tooth" as EagleEye might even have been around when the Secret Service started?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>The Treasury Department (Secret Service) is assigned with suppressing counterfeits money, but they are concerned with circulating currency. Once it becomes a collectible, I would think the Commerce department would be involved.
1) stop importation of counterfeits.
2) Make selling counterfeits a crime, not just a unsavory activity. Enforce it too.
3) educate buyers about counterfeits. >>
The Secret Service is the law enforcement branch of the Treasury Department, and no they are not limited to just circulating currency. I thought someone as "long in the tooth" as EagleEye might even have been around when the Secret Service started? >>
USSS is under Homeland Security.
<< <i>Aren't there already laws banning the sale of counterfeits? Do we need new laws?
Is the idea to have Congress put pressure on the Executive branch to enforce the laws? >>
Laws are in place in the US, but not in China.
In China, apparently it's legal to counterfeit anything dated before 1950.
So the hope would be to change that.
<< <i>
<< <i>Aren't there already laws banning the sale of counterfeits? Do we need new laws?
Is the idea to have Congress put pressure on the Executive branch to enforce the laws? >>
Laws are in place in the US, but not in China.
In China, apparently it's legal to counterfeit anything dated before 1950.
So the hope would be to change that. >>
I applaud them for trying, but I don't think Congress has any desire to pressure China on this. China pretty much has us by the balls as it is.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>In the end, isn't counterfeiting good for PCGS and other TPG? Without the threat of non-genuine coins I would think that the role of TPG would be diminished. >>
What about the fake coins in the fake slabs? >>
If fake slabs got to the point were TPG companies lost business as a result that is a different thing. The threat of counterfeits has to greatly increase the TPGing business and has to be a net positive to their bottom line. >>
The threat to the hobby is not good for PCGS business. And counterfeit coins in fake TPG slabs are also a serious problem.
I wish PCGS luck. But I am skeptical.
Lance.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>The education for many of us could start here. What does a good PCGS counterfeit look like,and what are the key telltale signs for a non-expert to look for? >>
I recently bought a fake slab (real lower grade coin) from Teletrade. For starters, it's good to know your series and what constitutes the grade. For me, that was the first sign, as the slab was really really good.
Some of the things I noticed when comparing the fake slab to a real one:
-The plastic is a different color, but subtly so. If you took a real slab and the fake one, laid them next to each other so you could look through them edgewise against a plain background, you would see it.
-The paper texture of the insert was different. PCGS' inserts have this milky blue-white textured look. The fake was all blue. At arm's length, you couldn't tell.
-The glue dot on the backside of the insert was wrong. There was a circle, but holding the slab up to the light, you could tell it was different.
-The hologram looked cheesy under scrutiny. Like fake security text on a fake check. Lines were not precise.
If I hadn't been paying attention to the COIN when I received it, I would have probably just locked it in my SDB and forgotten about it 'till Judgement Day.
Empty Nest Collection
I too have seen counterfeits get into significant grading service holders. Fake gold has fooled many in New England and when a buyer at an auction realized that, he went to the auctioneer who said that he didn't know who it was who had consigned the piece with his company, therefore could not refund, but when pressed on a clear violation of the law, relented.
<< <i>
<< <i>The education for many of us could start here. What does a good PCGS counterfeit look like,and what are the key telltale signs for a non-expert to look for? >>
I recently bought a fake slab (real lower grade coin) from Teletrade. For starters, it's good to know your series and what constitutes the grade. For me, that was the first sign, as the slab was really really good.
If I hadn't been paying attention to the COIN when I received it, I would have probably just locked it in my SDB and forgotten about it 'till Judgement Day. >>
Not knocking you, renomedphys, not one bit.....you are a wealth of knowledge, but I hope the Chinese counterfeiters aren't reading this thread.......that info you list could very well be tweaked before it leaves China and they'll look even better.
edited to take out the things the Chinese need to fix in order to make it more difficult to identify a fake
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The education for many of us could start here. What does a good PCGS counterfeit look like,and what are the key telltale signs for a non-expert to look for? >>
I recently bought a fake slab (real lower grade coin) from Teletrade. For starters, it's good to know your series and what constitutes the grade. For me, that was the first sign, as the slab was really really good.
If I hadn't been paying attention to the COIN when I received it, I would have probably just locked it in my SDB and forgotten about it 'till Judgement Day. >>
Not knocking you, renomedphys, not one bit.....you are a wealth of knowledge, but I hope the Chinese counterfeiters aren't reading this thread.......that info you list could very well be tweaked before it leaves China and they'll look even better.
edited to take out the things the Chinese need to fix in order to make it more difficult to identify a fake >>
This information will likely help collectors more than counterfeiters.
It's likely the counterfeiters already know those things and made the decision to go forward without a perfect match.
Those general items have also been mentioned here for years, even with photo diagnostics.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The education for many of us could start here. What does a good PCGS counterfeit look like,and what are the key telltale signs for a non-expert to look for? >>
I recently bought a fake slab (real lower grade coin) from Teletrade. For starters, it's good to know your series and what constitutes the grade. For me, that was the first sign, as the slab was really really good.
If I hadn't been paying attention to the COIN when I received it, I would have probably just locked it in my SDB and forgotten about it 'till Judgement Day. >>
Not knocking you, renomedphys, not one bit.....you are a wealth of knowledge, but I hope the Chinese counterfeiters aren't reading this thread.......that info you list could very well be tweaked before it leaves China and they'll look even better.
edited to take out the things the Chinese need to fix in order to make it more difficult to identify a fake >>
This information will likely help collectors more than counterfeiters.
It's likely the counterfeiters already know those things and made the decision to go forward without a perfect match.
Those general items have also been mentioned here for years, even with photo diagnostics. >>
Thanks Zoins. Your assesment is much similar to my own. NotSure's sentiment is well heeded, though. I had a post some weeks back when this whole thing surfaced. I outed the same observations there as well. Don't know where it is now. Think it got poofed, so it's possible that PCGS feels the same way NotSure does. It's also possible that PCGS was merely protecting the reputation of one of its biggest authorized retailers.
Regardless, upon showing the coin to a couple of local dealers, the sentiment there is that sharing information like this is crucial to the health of the certified coin industry.
Empty Nest Collection