Just an FYI on Paypal Gift/Payment Owed Transactions for Sellers Protection.
30AnvZ28
Posts: 1,619
Just because its sent as a Gift or Payment Owed transaction, does not guarantee the funds are going to clear. As many of you know, I contacted "waltscoins" who is now a known scammer on this site about purchasing his 1oz AGE.
I sent him a paypal payment owed payment in the amount of $1360. Within hours of sending him the payment, everything came to light about him being a scammer. I immediately called paypal and spoke to the frand department. Since I sent it paypal payment owed, paypal refused to help me with a dispute or with pulling the funds back out of his account. They informed me that gift and payment owed transactions are treated like "cash" and they legally can not remove the funds from his account. The guy I talked to told me my best course of action was to go to my bank, and get them to do a reversal. He insisted that I ensure my bank NOT write it up as a "fraudlent payment" as I did authorize the payment and told me doing so would result in paypal coming after me for the funds. I honestly could have cared less, and would have never paid paypal.
My bank is one of few that operate in true "real time". I logged into my online banking, and transfered everything out of one account, and into another. I knew this would force the $1360 payment into a manual override, because it would have put my account past the $1,000 overdraft limit. Sunday night at midnight the paypal payment processed. Monday morning I was at my bank and I informed them the situation. They reviewed the transaction, and informed me since paypal sent it as a check, I could simply put a stop payment on it. This would prevent them from being able to resubmit it also again and again. I paid the $37 fee, and signed the paperwork. I truely believed that my paypal would go $1360 negative, and would end up being locked up until I paid, which I would have never done.
The money was reimbursed to my bank yesterday.
Today, I recieve and email from paypal stating that there was a problem with my bank transfer (obviously) and they were also unable to process my secondary funding source for the funds (obviously, as ran my own CC through my business as an authorization only for the entire limit, therefor preventing any other transactions.). They informed me to log into my paypal account for further details.
Well, here we go... $1,360 in the hole, and the end of paypal for me. I logged into paypal. $0 balance. I pulled the transaction details. I have posted them below. Moral of the story... please dont think that paypal gifts, or payment owed is a guaranteed thing. They can not be disputed online, or by phone (according to the fraud rep I spoke with), however they CAN be reversed in a stop payment situation. My paypal is not locked, and is fully functional. Had the seller been legitimate, and had I been a scammer, he would have most likely already shipped the coin, been out the cash, no way to dispute, and no locked account on the "scammers" end. A VERY dangerous situation possibly.
Payment Sent (Unique Transaction ID #6KG83641XW462145P)
This transaction has been reversed
For further details please see transaction 4AH44983AN737553N
Original Transaction
Date Type Status Details Amount
Oct 22, 2010 Payment For david wasowski Reversed ... -$1,360.00 USD
Related Transactions
Date Type Status Details Amount
Oct 22, 2010 Add Funds from a Bank Account Failed Details $1,360.00 USD
Oct 27, 2010 Charge From Credit Card Denied Details $1,360.00 USD
Oct 27, 2010 Failed Transfer Completed Details -$1,360.00 USD
Oct 27, 2010 Reversal Completed Details $1,360.00 USD
Total: $0.00 USD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent to:
david wasowski
Email:
dwasowski@yahoo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amount sent:
-$1,360.00 USD
Fee amount:
$0.00 USD
Net amount:
-$1,360.00 USD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Oct 22, 2010
Time:
14:47:27 PDT
Status:
Reversed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent him a paypal payment owed payment in the amount of $1360. Within hours of sending him the payment, everything came to light about him being a scammer. I immediately called paypal and spoke to the frand department. Since I sent it paypal payment owed, paypal refused to help me with a dispute or with pulling the funds back out of his account. They informed me that gift and payment owed transactions are treated like "cash" and they legally can not remove the funds from his account. The guy I talked to told me my best course of action was to go to my bank, and get them to do a reversal. He insisted that I ensure my bank NOT write it up as a "fraudlent payment" as I did authorize the payment and told me doing so would result in paypal coming after me for the funds. I honestly could have cared less, and would have never paid paypal.
My bank is one of few that operate in true "real time". I logged into my online banking, and transfered everything out of one account, and into another. I knew this would force the $1360 payment into a manual override, because it would have put my account past the $1,000 overdraft limit. Sunday night at midnight the paypal payment processed. Monday morning I was at my bank and I informed them the situation. They reviewed the transaction, and informed me since paypal sent it as a check, I could simply put a stop payment on it. This would prevent them from being able to resubmit it also again and again. I paid the $37 fee, and signed the paperwork. I truely believed that my paypal would go $1360 negative, and would end up being locked up until I paid, which I would have never done.
The money was reimbursed to my bank yesterday.
Today, I recieve and email from paypal stating that there was a problem with my bank transfer (obviously) and they were also unable to process my secondary funding source for the funds (obviously, as ran my own CC through my business as an authorization only for the entire limit, therefor preventing any other transactions.). They informed me to log into my paypal account for further details.
Well, here we go... $1,360 in the hole, and the end of paypal for me. I logged into paypal. $0 balance. I pulled the transaction details. I have posted them below. Moral of the story... please dont think that paypal gifts, or payment owed is a guaranteed thing. They can not be disputed online, or by phone (according to the fraud rep I spoke with), however they CAN be reversed in a stop payment situation. My paypal is not locked, and is fully functional. Had the seller been legitimate, and had I been a scammer, he would have most likely already shipped the coin, been out the cash, no way to dispute, and no locked account on the "scammers" end. A VERY dangerous situation possibly.
Payment Sent (Unique Transaction ID #6KG83641XW462145P)
This transaction has been reversed
For further details please see transaction 4AH44983AN737553N
Original Transaction
Date Type Status Details Amount
Oct 22, 2010 Payment For david wasowski Reversed ... -$1,360.00 USD
Related Transactions
Date Type Status Details Amount
Oct 22, 2010 Add Funds from a Bank Account Failed Details $1,360.00 USD
Oct 27, 2010 Charge From Credit Card Denied Details $1,360.00 USD
Oct 27, 2010 Failed Transfer Completed Details -$1,360.00 USD
Oct 27, 2010 Reversal Completed Details $1,360.00 USD
Total: $0.00 USD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent to:
david wasowski
Email:
dwasowski@yahoo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amount sent:
-$1,360.00 USD
Fee amount:
$0.00 USD
Net amount:
-$1,360.00 USD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Oct 22, 2010
Time:
14:47:27 PDT
Status:
Reversed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0
Comments
<< <i>Thanks for the information, but, even though it's a lot of work, you've just shown people how to scam using PayPal gift/Payment owed. >>
I know, and I considered that, however people should be aware that it could happen to them, and to treat these payments just like a standard check.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>Sorry for your loss, but I thought it was obvious that "gift" Paypal had no protection. You save fees using Paypal gift, but you have to trust the recipient completely that the goods will be delivered. >>
I understand this... you missed the entire point of the thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry for your loss, but I thought it was obvious that "gift" Paypal had no protection. You save fees using Paypal gift, but you have to trust the recipient completely that the goods will be delivered. >>
I understand this... you missed the entire point of the thread. >>
Yeah, never mind.
<< <i>I thought it was obvious that "gift" Paypal had no protection. You save fees using Paypal gift, but you have to trust the recipient completely that the goods will be delivered. >>
+1
No protection for the gift, but I use it a lot among trusted members.