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1956 thru 1964 Washington Type B Quarter diagnostics pictorial
ksteelheader
Posts: 11,777 ✭
Hope this helps you folks!!
Leaf will touch the "A"
Right wing tip (facing coin) will be pointed.
Leaf will be above arrow points
"M" will bracket the "IB"
Larger space between "E" and "S" of States
Leaf will touch the "A"
Right wing tip (facing coin) will be pointed.
Leaf will be above arrow points
"M" will bracket the "IB"
Larger space between "E" and "S" of States
0
Comments
I've known about Type Bs and occasionally tried looking into them but the only diagnostics I knew of were the arrow tips and the space between E & S. This helps out quite a bit thanks again.
<< <i>add the fact that there is a slight rotation counter clock and you have a winna! >>
Not much, but is seen here.
Thank you.
<< <i>I know it's been discussed before, but are these business strike only?
Thank you. >>
Yes, business strikes only.
<< <i>
<< <i>I know it's been discussed before, but are these business strike only?
Thank you. >>
Yes, business strikes only. >>
Not so. The above die markers apply to ALL of the Proof Washington quarters produced from 1956-1964. The type B reverse is the Proof reverse die design for this time frame.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
can you tell me about your 1964 D Kennedy Half QDO FS-105 (FS-013.6) ?
what would i be looking for?
i have quite a few 64D Kennedys.
Thanks
The more PUP's the better.
Great post,
A little over a year ago I was cherry picking type "B" reverse's off ebay at a pretty good rate...even scored over (15) 1956 BU's from one source.....things have changed and
IMO rightfully so, these are great varieties that even now few collectors know about!
?????what do you mean?....and who is your cousin?
1964-D quarters had early adopter 1965 reverse on occasion which were the 64-d type C = more valuable than the B's
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
<< <i>very nice...i have a few unopened rolls of 64 and 64D i will have to check.'
can you tell me about your 1964 D Kennedy Half QDO FS-105 (FS-013.6) ?
what would i be looking for?
i have quite a few 64D Kennedys.
Thanks >>
Harry, be sure to check your 64-D's for the Type C Reverse (Reverse of 1965). I suppose it's totally possible that you could have a roll of "GOLD"!
The name is LEE!
That is true for the silver coins. However, Denver used proof dies in 1969 - 1972. These Denver Clad B reverses appear to be much more rare than the silver B reverses.
I have been Cherrypicking the B reverses for a couple of years and it is getting harder and harder to do so.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>That is true for the silver coins. However, Denver used proof dies in 1969 - 1972. These Denver Clad B reverses appear to be much more rare than the silver B reverses.
I have been Cherrypicking the B reverses for a couple of years and it is getting harder and harder to do so. >>
How many have you picked?
OMG! It just now dawned on me!
San Francisco would routinely forward unusable material to the Denver Facility which is what accounts for the 1971-D RDV-006, 1974-D 40% Silver IKEs, etc.
Its the only possible source for the proof reverse dies to have ended up on the Denver production floor!
The name is LEE!
Is this correct?
What is the premium for these?
<< <i>"type B's only at Philadelphia as it is surmised they are used proof dies"
That is true for the silver coins. However, Denver used proof dies in 1969 - 1972. These Denver Clad B reverses appear to be much more rare than the silver B reverses.
>>
I'm not sure the difference is so much mintage as it is survival rates.
In the '50's and '60's millions of coins were being set aside each and every year but
that can to a screaching stop in 1965. Where as many as 60% of the mintage of some
dates had been saved and a minimum of three or four percent were saved with the
silver quarters the clads had survival rates as low as .0001% People simply didn't want
to save common, debased, and ugly coins. With mintages as low as Proofartworkoncircs
suggests this means mintagesw of only .000004%
When you put these together it means that like most clad varieties these are extremely
scarce to nonexistent in unc. Finding them in circulation won't prove a great deal easier
since large percentages of the old quarters no longer exist and the survivors are mixed
in with large numbers of other coins.
This creates a situation where the coins might exist only in very small numbers in well
worn condition with almost no uncs at all. The scarcest clads will be even worse since
low grade examples might not be any more available than high grade ones.
<< <i>
?????what do you mean?....and who is your cousin? >>
There's a rumor that Ksteelheader was banned.
It would be a loss to the forum and a loss to the type "b" reverses.
<< <i>
<< <i>
?????what do you mean?....and who is your cousin? >>
There's a rumor that Ksteelheader was banned.
It would be a loss to the forum and a loss to the type "b" reverses. >>
It's true.
He posted that Mark Feld had posted a thread that didn't conform to the new rules and got the boot. And Don Willis deleted his post so nobody could complain.
I'll probably get the boot for posting this, but wrong is wrong.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
?????what do you mean?....and who is your cousin? >>
There's a rumor that Ksteelheader was banned.
It would be a loss to the forum and a loss to the type "b" reverses. >>
It's true.
He posted that Mark Feld had posted a thread that didn't conform to the new rules and got the boot. And Don Willis deleted his post so nobody could complain.
I'll probably get the boot for posting this, but wrong is wrong.
There are even more.
Silver - all proofs 1937 thru 1964 and a few 1956-1964 business strikes.
Clad - 25% 1968 S and all 1969 S - 1972 S proofs and a very few 1969 D - 1972 D business strikes. You can use the same PUP's. The chief difference on the clad B's is the addition of centerlines in relief on the tailfeathers which match the other clads of that period.
Rare might be a too strong a word. Certainly B's are the far less common variety. I wouldn't hesitate to use rare for the 1971 D and 1972 D B's and maybe the 1970 D and even 1969 D.
Here is a recent price survey.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=751473&highlight_key=y
Type A is the original silver quarter reverse of 1932-1964, but with the date freeze was used into 1966.
Type B was first used on proofs in 1937. It was made by extensive carving away of the field of a Type A hub (positive image, the same as the coin itself). It was last used in 1972 and only on a minority of 1968 S. It was also used on a few business strikes of 1956-1964 and 1969D-1972 D. The clad version has one tiny difference. Centerlines have been added to the tailfeathers similiar to the other clads of that period.
Pickup points are:
The ES separation in STATES is greater; also, rhe tail of S does not rise as high above the bottom bar of E.
The top of the M of UNUM brackets IB of PLURIBUS just above it.
The leaf touching the arrowhead points now juts above them and the gap from this leaf to the points is filled in.
The top and bottom arrowhead barbs are apparently missing (they are still there but overwhelmed by the field deeping there)
The stem end is parallel to the T of Quarter rather than angling upward
The leaf by A of DOLLAR is connected by a solid bridge. The leaf on "A" is very faint and does not connect.
These are unique to the type B, so you can use them against either type A or type C. since A and C are similiar in these aspects. There is a special case within the clad group where the top barb is also missing. More on that later.
The separation in ES is obvious when you have the coin in hand. At times pictures are deceptive and especially in that apparent gap width. If the gap is there, the tail of the S does not rise as high above the bottom bar of E. Sometimes that feature is more obvious than the gap in pictures.
Type C was the clad version first introduced in 1965. There were various adjustments made to the artwork over the following years.
Pickup points are:
* The eagle has 6 wing feathers rather than 5 in each vertical wing section, the innermost wing feather on each side has been divided in two.
There is no incuse outline of the X-band on the arrow bundle between the eagle's legs.
Centerlines of the tail feathers are in relief.
Wreath leaves are more distinct and show more noticeably cupped centers.
The leaf under the arrow barbs is very distinct.
The leaf to the right of the tailfeathers is also very distinct and juts up beyond the bottom of the tail feathers.
Not all of these C PUPs show up well in the pictures, but the coin has a distinctive overall very sharp detailed appearence.
1968 S proofs come in several varieties. There are a very few business style artwork proofs and about 25% Type B as modified with the tailfeather centerlines. History repeated itself and they took a clad hub and carved that away to make a higher relief proof version. I was running out of logical choices for names, so I am calling this one type M. M is for modified. It was not used after 1968 for proofs, but showed up on a few 1969D, 1970 D and 1970 Philly. I consider this one significant since it is so obvious and similiar in some respects to the B. More about them can be found on this thread:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=697723&highlight_key=y&keyword1=type m
* edited - I have seen dome PIX that seem to show 6 wings when it is not realy there.
Hoard the keys.
San Francisco would routinely forward unusable material to the Denver Facility which is what accounts for the 1971-D RDV-006, 1974-D 40% Silver IKEs, etc.
Its the only possible source for the proof reverse dies to have ended up on the Denver production floor! >>
I agree. Another famous example of SF trash sent to Denver in 1970 was a large shipment of quarter blanks made from dime stock. Sound familar?
edit: I don't know if the RDV-006 dies ever made it all the way to SF before ending up at Denver. SF was the source of the polished dollar blanks Denver had in 1971.
2) I have just edited the type C 6 left wing divisions versus 5 divisions PUP, since pix can be deceptive in this area.
<< <i>1) The diagnostic pictues for type B which went missing are BACK!
2) I have just edited the tpe C 6 left wing divisions versus 5 divisions PUP, since pix can be deceptive in this area. >>
mebbe ksteelheader is allowed to come back?
To keep it related to the thread, I just picked up 5 BU '62 Type B's, and I'll post images soon to get opinions.
<< <i>1) The diagnostic pictues for type B which went missing are BACK!
2) I have just edited the tpe C 6 left wing divisions versus 5 divisions PUP, since pix can be deceptive in this area. >>
The photos came back because Ken decided to repost them. He did a lot more for this forum than most realize. Too bad he wasn't allowed to speak up.
Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is September 5-7, 2024 at the Eisenhower Hotel in Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>edit: I don't know if the RDV-006 dies ever made it all the way to SF before ending up at Denver. SF was the source of the polished dollar blanks Denver had in 1971. >>
Why would you say that Herb?
The name is LEE!
<<OMG! It just now dawned on me!
San Francisco would routinely forward unusable material to the Denver Facility which is what accounts for the 1971-D RDV-006, 1974-D 40% Silver IKEs, etc.
Its the only possible source for the proof reverse dies to have ended up on the Denver production floor! >>
The RDV-006 in this case is the Ike dollar FEV reverse. The Ike Group believes that it was created to make clad dollar proofs. We also believe they proved to be too tough to make. We suspect this was demonstrated at the Philadelphia mint. I consider it possible that in the rush to get Ike dollars made for circulation that these dies were then sent to Denver directly. It looks like San Francisco had prepared polished blanks and these were sent to Denver in a great quantity. Proof blanks ended up at Denver in other years, but not in such a great quantity.
<< <i>This is part of Lee's Jan 3 7:47 post.
<<OMG! It just now dawned on me!
San Francisco would routinely forward unusable material to the Denver Facility which is what accounts for the 1971-D RDV-006, 1974-D 40% Silver IKEs, etc.
Its the only possible source for the proof reverse dies to have ended up on the Denver production floor! >>
The RDV-006 in this case is the Ike dollar FEV reverse. The Ike Group believes that it was created to make clad dollar proofs. We also believe they proved to be too tough to make. We suspect this was demonstrated at the Philadelphia mint. I consider it possible that in the rush to get Ike dollars made for circulation that these dies were then sent to Denver directly. It looks like San Francisco had prepared polished blanks and these were sent to Denver in a great quantity. Proof blanks ended up at Denver in other years, but not in such a great quantity. >>
Interesting in that I would naturally assume that proof production testing would have occured in San Francisco. However if this did not occur, I would then assume that perhaps not all the RDV-006 dies made it to Denver and perhaps there are or could also be some 1971 IKE's with the RDV-006 Reverse?
The name is LEE!
I don't know what really happened. Your speculation is equally reasonable. I assume any P mint FEV's (RDV-006) were melted.
Sugar magnolia blossoms blooming, heads all empty and I don't care ...
Actually, that is why I check all 1971 P's I come across for a FEV. I haven't found one yet.
Incidently this present reincarnation of the thead starts on page 3. Some folk might find pages 1 and 2 interesting. You can just click on those.
<< <i>Type C was the clad version first introduced in 1965. There were various adjustments made to the artwork over the following years.
Pickup points are:
* The eagle has 6 wing feathers rather than 5 in each vertical wing section, the innermost wing feather on each side has been divided in two.
There is no incuse outline of the X-band on the arrow bundle between the eagle's legs.
Centerlines of the tail feathers are in relief.
Wreath leaves are more distinct and show more noticeably cupped centers.
The leaf under the arrow barbs is very distinct.
The leaf to the right of the tailfeathers is also very distinct and juts up beyond the bottom of the tail feathers.
Not all of these C PUPs show up well in the pictures, but the coin has a distinctive overall very sharp detailed appearence. >>
What are all the dates known with the type C reverse and how rare are they?
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>
<< <i>Type C was the clad version first introduced in 1965. There were various adjustments made to the artwork over the following years.
Pickup points are:
* The eagle has 6 wing feathers rather than 5 in each vertical wing section, the innermost wing feather on each side has been divided in two.
There is no incuse outline of the X-band on the arrow bundle between the eagle's legs.
Centerlines of the tail feathers are in relief.
Wreath leaves are more distinct and show more noticeably cupped centers.
The leaf under the arrow barbs is very distinct.
The leaf to the right of the tailfeathers is also very distinct and juts up beyond the bottom of the tail feathers.
Not all of these C PUPs show up well in the pictures, but the coin has a distinctive overall very sharp detailed appearence. >>
What are all the dates known with the type C reverse and how rare are they? >>
1964-D through 1967
PCGS has 53 graded as FS-901 with 30 in the MS Range.
ANACS shows 184 graded as FS-902 with 81 in the MS Range.
I have no idea on what the pops are for NGC.
Wiles states that this is a one die variety for the 1964-D Washington and I know for a fact that there are many folks out the that have what they "think" is the Type C Rev 64D but it's only a well struck Type A. (I have a few of those myself
The name is LEE!
The earliest clad quarter had a weak EPU (but don't try to separate them by that feature alone). THe EPU came up well on the softer silver planchet though. The 1964 D type C is quite scarce. This identical artwork was used on 5% of the 1965's and less than .1% of the 1967's and perhaps not at all on the 1966's.
Perhaps, some day, the term type C will only apply to this first type.
Hoard the keys.
That is 2 %. That is good, but quite attainable for an East Coast hoard. I am surprised that you did so well in your area.
A hoard in the East usually has quite a few pre 1956 quarters and a lot of post 1955 D mint. 1956 is a rare one in unc. Perhaps in that first year we did not know we were supposed to save them.
+!