Strong price for this un-attributed '56 Type B in PCGS 65. Thought it would be mine, but someone wanted it worse than I did. Bids went wild in the last minute. Who wants to take the credit???
Ok, $200.....someone got a VERY last second bid in....mine was high till the end of the auction....and I was high bidder in 'track and bid' till it ended.
Could it have been an owner buy-back (ie; the owner knew what he had)? When the 'live tracking' turns yellow at the end of the auction, usually the high bid at that moment is the winner (from personal winning experiences).
I won it and had silly hopes that you Type B Teletrade Trolling Junkies hadn't spotted it!
As for the last second bid? I initially bid $130 when it first posted and then waited for-evah to see if the bids would rise. When they hit $75 I knew that my paultry bid would not be enough so I placed a $215 bid with about 5 minutes left.
When the auction went "pending" my screen was showing a $180 orange bid.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Funny, at $180, in my 'track and bid', it showed MY bid was high. Well, 19Lyds, at least you gave me a ballpark estimate for my 1 MS64, and 3 MS65's (which are all attributed). For that I thank you!
Now, won't that cost another $50 for attribution, plus shipping both ways? With the TT fees, and attribution, that brings it to the $300 neighboorhood for an MS65? Didn't an MS66 (1 of only 2) '56 Type B go for about $250 a little over a year ago at Heritage?
Additionally, did any of you Type B seekers see what the last few attributed MS64 Type B's went for on the 'bay? This 1962 PCGS MS64 went for a healthy sum, and this 1963 MS63 (most common date of the '56-'64 Type surprised me. Nice prices starting to be realized, I think.
That coin is a toughie. I just added an MS66 to my set last week so I wasn't bidding for it. But, the sale price was in line with the Price Guide moving up on all of these coins.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Funny, at $180, in my 'track and bid', it showed MY bid was high. Well, 19Lyds, at least you gave me a ballpark estimate for my 1 MS64, and 3 MS65's (which are all attributed). For that I thank you!
Now, won't that cost another $50 for attribution, plus shipping both ways? With the TT fees, and attribution, that brings it to the $300 neighboorhood for an MS65? Didn't an MS66 (1 of only 2) '56 Type B go for about $250 a little over a year ago at Heritage?
Additionally, did any of you Type B seekers see what the last few attributed MS64 Type B's went for on the 'bay? This 1962 PCGS MS64 went for a healthy sum, and this 1963 MS63 (most common date of the '56-'64 Type surprised me. Nice prices starting to be realized, I think. >>
$24 attribution and the coin number won't even change. I'll include it along with some other coins to minimize the shipping costs. As for the price, damned the price since these are just not that readily available and don;t come up for auction all that often. PCGS Price guide lists it at $250 and I've yet to get an MS65 graded. A couple of 64's but no 65's.
As for the 1962 Type B, I expect the price on that coin to go up considerably since 1962 seems to be very difficult to locate. With all the ferver on getting these attributed, the 1962's are just not that easy to find and should follow right behind the 1956. After that, the 1961's come in third which kinda accounts for that auction you listed.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Didn't someone on these boards have a FULL set of MS64's on ebay that just sat there for awhile, with no takers? Then, the 2 that I linked went for solid money. With the prices I linked to, they make that full MS64 set look like a good deal, unless it's one of those cases where the parts is greater than the sum?
Probably not for long... when I discussed these with the Price Guide editor last week (and prices were raised on many Ty B coins), it was my imression that we both thought the coins were likely still undervalued at current levels for many of them. As was pointed out, Lee paid more than $250 for his coin tonight "all in" after all fees. And, if anyone thinks Lee paid too much for the coin, I would happily pay him tomorrow a respectable 20% profit if he thought he paid too much tonight
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
...it was my imression that we both thought the coins were likely still undervalued at current levels for many of them.
This is good news! I guess I should have my unattributed '61's (in PCGS plastic), attributed (as well as my Type B's in 65 and higher in other plastic), and should think about placing them all on the 'bay (which includes 2 '64 MS64 Type C's). I likely have 2 full sets in MS 65/66, and another in MS64.
edited to ask...When did these get included in the price guides? Had to be very recently, no?
<<Didn't someone on these boards have a FULL set of MS64's on ebay that just sat there for awhile, with no takers?>>
Yes, but it finally sold, after the listing expired. But then again, I think a full set of business strike type B's should include 1969 D thru 1972 D .
<< <i>Didn't someone on these boards have a FULL set of MS64's on ebay that just sat there for awhile, with no takers? Then, the 2 that I linked went for solid money. With the prices I linked to, they make that full MS64 set look like a good deal, unless it's one of those cases where the parts is greater than the sum? >>
That was me friend. The danged thing sat around for a month or so with absolutely "ZERO" offers.
I traded it to ProofArtworkoncircs for one of his original Type 2 discovery coins and some cash.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i><<Didn't someone on these boards have a FULL set of MS64's on ebay that just sat there for awhile, with no takers?>>
Yes, but it finally sold, after the listing expired. But then again, I think a full set of business strike type B's should include 1969 D thru 1972 D . >>
If I could find any of those clad Type B's I would not sell them. IMO, the clad quarter varieties are a whole different cat since folks poo-pooed them and didn't bother setting any aside. These things fall into that super difficult area of coins to find.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Wow, I am glad to see these prices on the move. I have been cherrypicking these for a few years now. That is getting harder and harder to do. They don't seem to be around like they were three years ago. I missed this one but I would have been outbid anyway. I really want a 71 - D and a 72 - D!!! - Preferably uncirculated. Then I'll have a complete set. Been looking for those for a while too with no luck.
I remember posting all the then "not to be found" PCGS coin #s for ALL years 56-64.
Took me a while but I did. As such, pops were really low (single digits) and that 1st submission was hard to get "made"! I had called CS several times regarding the submission PRIOR to sending it in and was repeatedly told just to write the correct PCGS coin # and "the graders would know what to do"!
WRONG!
The coins had NOT been graded as Type B originally because no one in CS mentioned the need to pay MORE for proper attribution. It's not like I was intentionally misled - they just didn't know and conveyed to me what they though to be true.
DESPITE WRITING IN CORRECT PCGS COIN #s along with Type B Proof Reverse FS-901, they STILL WERE GRADED AS REGULAR ISSUE CIRCULATION STRIKES! Had I not noticed they were going to send them back to me as such but I was able to stop the order while still "in house". I was then told I needed to authorize the additional expenses - which I obviously DID!
So BACK into the grading room they went. I was forrtunate to make one PCGS 63 (cut from a Mint set) a 59, correctly graded, and an equal amount of PCGS 64 & PCGS 65. The prices realized made the expense well worth it as they surpassed my expectations - but again, remember - I made these when pops were in the single digits. The 63 went for around $75, the 64s went for well over $100 each and the 65s went for almost $200 each. I have the realized prices in my PayPal account as they were auctioned ON EBAY!
I also had a 66 that went for well over $200 and a drop dead gorgeous 67 that went for Moon Money, as Wash Qtrs go!
Many people saw this and tried to sell them raw or in unattributed, previously graded slabs but it didn't work out very well for them because people wanted TO BE SURE they has a "B" by seeing FS-901 Type B Proof Reverse written on the inserts. Afterall, most people wouldn't (or didn't) readily know or recognize a Type B and as such wanted to be certain they were in fact bidding on and were going to receive a very scarce, low pop Type B!
Many followed suit however almost as if by default, grades seem to hover round PCGS 64 unless one was fortunate enough to find and snap up an already graded PCGS 66 or 67 and spring for the additional fees to have the coins correctly attributed.
Bearing in mind total mintage figures and the then guesstimated mintage to be somewhere round 5% - if you divide known mintage numbers by known population, these coins thus far do not even come close to 5% of total mintage and with grades such as 64 or worse for the expense to TRY to make them, many soon discovered that it was just too costly.
Top Pops in the tough years (56, 58, 61, 62 & 64) will bring good money but all considered, it's a crap shoot. $200 plus juice for a PCGS 65 1956 IS GOOD MONEY! 66s and 67s are going to really surprise you guys! Guaranteed!
Coin number is 145423.....but I see what the problem is. It is only valid in the COMPLETE variety set, not the 'major' variety set. I wonder why that is, where the 'major' variety set does allow the Type B's...??
19Lyds..if I there's only 18 (a 19th was made by a fellow board member...can't recall his name, I DO apologize to whoever made it, as it's TOUGH.... last week or so, MS64 I believe), there's only so many to go around!!!
This image was posted awhile back, but it shows the 3 types of the '64 Washie. I'd give credit to where it's deserved, but I can't recall who posted this VERY helpful image.
Much further on in the thread is a post by myself listing characteristics of types B and C. In brief, the 1964 D C is very sharp and very similiar to a 1965 clad quarter. Only 5% of the 1965 mintage is completely identical to it though.
I missed the un-attributed 1956 - Congrats to Lee!!! I posted the 1964-D type-C reverse just attributed a few days ago. I also just received my grade on another 1964-P type-B [pop just went up 1] in MS65 They can easily be seen by clicking on the Show Case link in my sig line. To view larger photos click on "Show case Images" and then click on the magnifying glass under each picture.
<Herb, what do you mean only 5% of the '65 mintage is identical to the 64 D type C. What varieties of the 65 are there??? >>
There are three. There are descriptions and pictures of them on the net, referenced below. The first clad version has EPU in thick low relief letters. However, due to silver blanks, it shows up strongly on 1964 D C. The horizontal section of the eagle's wing is solid.
The next version has thinner higher relief EPU. The eagle's wing edge fades out completely. This comes with and without the incuse outline.
The third version, on very few 1967's, has a medium EPU and the wing edge is solid again
Dr. James Wiles 2003 Baltimore Handout may be found on the net at:
This identifies all the varieties known from 1972-1972. Note he keeps referring to the Eagle's left wing, viewer's right. But all his pictures show Eagle's right wing, viewer's left - so use those instead. RDV005 mentions an incuse line. I think he means lack of an incuse line.
Here is a conversion chart of all early Washington quarter Dr. Wiles reverse die variety numbers versus Forum lingo versus my 1986 article.
RDV-001 *** A *** I 1932 dates are date of first appearance RDV-002 *** B *** IIa 1937 RDV-003 *** C *** IIIo a last minute add on but o stands for original -1964 D C and 5% 1965 RDV-004 *** C *** IIIa1 1965 RDV-005 *** C *** IIIa2 1965 RDV-006 *** C *** IIIb 1967 RDV-007 *** M *** IIIm another add on, but m stands for modified. Also appears as another "C" in forum lingo at times. 1968 RDV-008 *** B *** IIb 1968 RDV-009 *** C *** IIIc all 1973-1974 issues RDV-010 *** Bicentennial issue (1975) - 1976 RDV-011 *** C *** IVa starting in 1977 etc.
Roman numerals were used many years ago until Walter Breen reserved them for quarter obverses and used letters for reverses. Strangely enough, he was the same guy that also changed my A, B and C Ike reverses to I, II and III. Go figure.
I have some updated data from Dr. Wiles. 1965 RDV-004, 1968S and 1969D RDV_005 and 1970D RDV-008 are now all confirmed. So the four 4 1968 S designs were all part of the five 1969 D varieties.
I found an old posting of mine from JUly 18, 2007 where I listed the characteristics of the minor quarter varieties. In some cases I listed alternate pickup points to my last posting here. So for completeness I have copied it here.
<< Wednesday July 18, 2007 12:58 AM
Keez, You asked for it and here it is and more. To avoid confusing myself, I am going to revert to my original numbering system where a C is called III and I will give a cross reference to James Wiles RDV numbers. I am aware of no other systems that identify the minor varieties.
IIIo (o for original), RDV-003 The 1964-D Rev C which also appears on only 10 % of 1965 and less than .1% 1966 and 1967. E PLURIBUS UNUM is thick and flat. Looks good on the 1964-D tho. Definite raised border above the field at the inside edge of the left horizontal wing where it joins the eagle's body (as contrasted with IIIa next.) I will keep referring to this same spot as simply the eagle's wing.
IIIa1 and IIIa2, RDV-004 and RDV-005 appears on MOST 1965, 1966, 1967 some 1968 (including S) and 1969-D. Much weaker outline to eagles wing, EPU is in higher relief and thinner. Some have a incuse outling of the inside of the vertical wing segments, hence the second reference number.
IIIb, RDV-006 used in 1967-1972 including 1968 -S. 1969 Phillys are 100% IIIb and rather sharp. slightly doubled master die most obvious on the inside edge of the top of Q of QUARTER. EPU similiar to IIIo but a bit higher in relief. Inside edge of wing sharper than IIIo.
IIIm, RDV-007 used on most 1968-S and 1970-D mint sets. Otherwise on a minority of 1969D, 1970 and 1970D. Special proof artwork made from a IIIb working hub. It has the same doubling. Inside edges of wings in very high relief even more so than rev B. Inside extreme tips of the wings have outline lines.
IIb, RDV-008 used on some 1968-S and all 1969-S thru 1972-S proofs and a very few 1969-D thru 1972-D. Reverse B with the addition of tailfeather centerlines in relief.
IIIc, RDV-009 used on ALL 1973 and 1974. Again the same doubling as IIIb and IIIm so probably made from a IIIb hub. Wing tips have outlines similiar to IIIm, leaves are touched up.
This is the simplified version. There are many more differences than this. Note that 1968-S has 4 varieties and the same 4 varieties are on 1969-D (IIIa, IIIb, IIIm and IIb ) 1969 Philadelphia is IIIb only and San Francisco is IIb only. >>
Comments
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
I guess I'm not the only computer troll surfing TT for this type of stuff
Could it have been an owner buy-back (ie; the owner knew what he had)? When the 'live tracking' turns yellow at the end of the auction, usually the high bid at that moment is the winner (from personal winning experiences).
As for the last second bid? I initially bid $130 when it first posted and then waited for-evah to see if the bids would rise. When they hit $75 I knew that my paultry bid would not be enough so I placed a $215 bid with about 5 minutes left.
When the auction went "pending" my screen was showing a $180 orange bid.
The name is LEE!
Now, won't that cost another $50 for attribution, plus shipping both ways? With the TT fees, and attribution, that brings it to the $300 neighboorhood for an MS65? Didn't an MS66 (1 of only 2) '56 Type B go for about $250 a little over a year ago at Heritage?
Additionally, did any of you Type B seekers see what the last few attributed MS64 Type B's went for on the 'bay? This 1962 PCGS MS64 went for a healthy sum, and this 1963 MS63 (most common date of the '56-'64 Type
Edited to add;
I guess I need to read the whole thread. I guess you really wanted it 19Lyds. Of course I am still looking for the 56 and 64.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Funny, at $180, in my 'track and bid', it showed MY bid was high. Well, 19Lyds, at least you gave me a ballpark estimate for my 1 MS64, and 3 MS65's (which are all attributed). For that I thank you!
Now, won't that cost another $50 for attribution, plus shipping both ways? With the TT fees, and attribution, that brings it to the $300 neighboorhood for an MS65? Didn't an MS66 (1 of only 2) '56 Type B go for about $250 a little over a year ago at Heritage?
Additionally, did any of you Type B seekers see what the last few attributed MS64 Type B's went for on the 'bay? This 1962 PCGS MS64 went for a healthy sum, and this 1963 MS63 (most common date of the '56-'64 Type
$24 attribution and the coin number won't even change. I'll include it along with some other coins to minimize the shipping costs. As for the price, damned the price since these are just not that readily available and don;t come up for auction all that often. PCGS Price guide lists it at $250 and I've yet to get an MS65 graded. A couple of 64's but no 65's.
As for the 1962 Type B, I expect the price on that coin to go up considerably since 1962 seems to be very difficult to locate. With all the ferver on getting these attributed, the 1962's are just not that easy to find and should follow right behind the 1956. After that, the 1961's come in third which kinda accounts for that auction you listed.
The name is LEE!
Probably not for long... when I discussed these with the Price Guide editor last week (and prices were raised on many Ty B coins), it was my imression that we both thought the coins were likely still undervalued at current levels for many of them. As was pointed out, Lee paid more than $250 for his coin tonight "all in" after all fees. And, if anyone thinks Lee paid too much for the coin, I would happily pay him tomorrow a respectable 20% profit if he thought he paid too much tonight
Wondercoin
This is good news! I guess I should have my unattributed '61's (in PCGS plastic), attributed (as well as my Type B's in 65 and higher in other plastic), and should think about placing them all on the 'bay (which includes 2 '64 MS64 Type C's). I likely have 2 full sets in MS 65/66, and another in MS64.
edited to ask...When did these get included in the price guides? Had to be very recently, no?
Yes, but it finally sold, after the listing expired. But then again, I think a full set of business strike type B's should include 1969 D thru 1972 D .
<< <i>Didn't someone on these boards have a FULL set of MS64's on ebay that just sat there for awhile, with no takers? Then, the 2 that I linked went for solid money. With the prices I linked to, they make that full MS64 set look like a good deal, unless it's one of those cases where the parts is greater than the sum? >>
That was me friend. The danged thing sat around for a month or so with absolutely "ZERO" offers.
I traded it to ProofArtworkoncircs for one of his original Type 2 discovery coins and some cash.
The name is LEE!
<< <i><<Didn't someone on these boards have a FULL set of MS64's on ebay that just sat there for awhile, with no takers?>>
Yes, but it finally sold, after the listing expired. But then again, I think a full set of business strike type B's should include 1969 D thru 1972 D . >>
If I could find any of those clad Type B's I would not sell them. IMO, the clad quarter varieties are a whole different cat since folks poo-pooed them and didn't bother setting any aside. These things fall into that super difficult area of coins to find.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I only see prices for the 56 & 61 in the price guide.
Start up a registry of Washington Quarters complete varieties. Do a what if and you'll see the prices listed.
The name is LEE!
I remember posting all the then "not to be found" PCGS coin #s for ALL years 56-64.
Took me a while but I did. As such, pops were really low (single digits) and that 1st submission
was hard to get "made"! I had called CS several times regarding the submission PRIOR to sending it in
and was repeatedly told just to write the correct PCGS coin # and "the graders would know what to do"!
WRONG!
The coins had NOT been graded as Type B originally because no one in CS mentioned the need to pay MORE for proper attribution.
It's not like I was intentionally misled - they just didn't know and conveyed to me what they though to be true.
DESPITE WRITING IN CORRECT PCGS COIN #s along with Type B Proof Reverse FS-901, they STILL WERE GRADED AS REGULAR ISSUE
CIRCULATION STRIKES!
Had I not noticed they were going to send them back to me as such but I was able to stop the order while still "in house".
I was then told I needed to authorize the additional expenses - which I obviously DID!
So BACK into the grading room they went. I was forrtunate to make one PCGS 63 (cut from a Mint set) a 59, correctly graded,
and an equal amount of PCGS 64 & PCGS 65. The prices realized made the expense well worth it as they surpassed my expectations -
but again, remember - I made these when pops were in the single digits. The 63 went for around $75, the 64s went for well over $100
each and the 65s went for almost $200 each. I have the realized prices in my PayPal account as they were auctioned ON EBAY!
I also had a 66 that went for well over $200 and a drop dead gorgeous 67 that went for Moon Money, as Wash Qtrs go!
Many people saw this and tried to sell them raw or in unattributed, previously graded slabs but it didn't work out very well for them because
people wanted TO BE SURE they has a "B" by seeing FS-901 Type B Proof Reverse written on the inserts. Afterall, most people wouldn't (or didn't)
readily know or recognize a Type B and as such wanted to be certain they were in fact bidding on and were going to receive a very scarce, low pop Type B!
Many followed suit however almost as if by default, grades seem to hover round PCGS 64 unless one was fortunate enough to find and snap up an already
graded PCGS 66 or 67 and spring for the additional fees to have the coins correctly attributed.
Bearing in mind total mintage figures and the then guesstimated mintage to be somewhere round 5% - if you divide known mintage numbers by known population,
these coins thus far do not even come close to 5% of total mintage and with grades such as 64 or worse for the expense to TRY to make them, many soon discovered
that it was just too costly.
Top Pops in the tough years (56, 58, 61, 62 & 64) will bring good money but all considered, it's a crap shoot. $200 plus juice for a PCGS 65 1956 IS GOOD MONEY!
66s and 67s are going to really surprise you guys! Guaranteed!
There you have it as I've seen this unfold.
Though the '56-'64 Type B's ARE allowed in the varieties set, they still don't allow the '64-D Type C to be entered into that varieties set?
Has PCGS in fact made the Type B part of that particular Registry set?
This would certainly help in many regards.
<< <i>Start up a registry of Washington Quarters complete varieties. Do a what if and you'll see the prices listed.
Though the '56-'64 Type B's ARE allowed in the varieties set, they still don't allow the '64-D Type C to be entered into that varieties set? >>
Look again as it is a required coin in the Washington Complete Varieties Set, 1932-1964.
It is also required in the Complete Varieties Set Including MN Extra Trees 1932-Present.
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Well heck, then sell me those 2 and you go find some more! >>
I'll take 2 as well!
BTW, post some pictures of those Type C's so folks will know what we are referring to!
Only 18 graded since August 2006.
Corrected to 19 graded since August 2006.
The name is LEE!
This image was posted awhile back, but it shows the 3 types of the '64 Washie. I'd give credit to where it's deserved, but I can't recall who posted this VERY helpful image.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=745095&highlight_key=y&keyword1=ty-b
Much further on in the thread is a post by myself listing characteristics of types B and C.
In brief, the 1964 D C is very sharp and very similiar to a 1965 clad quarter. Only 5% of the 1965 mintage is completely identical to it though.
I have a 1958, 1962, and a 1963 (all Philly) in various circ condition.
V/R
Sumdunce
My Washington Type B/C Set
I have a 1958, 1962, and a 1963 (all Philly) in various circ condition.>>
I would say very little little, if any, over melt on the type B's.
I would consider a circulated 1964 D C still quite desireable.
Pricing is not my strong point, so perhaps some others can comment.
There are three. There are descriptions and pictures of them on the net, referenced below.
The first clad version has EPU in thick low relief letters. However, due to silver blanks, it shows up strongly on 1964 D C. The horizontal section of the eagle's wing is solid.
The next version has thinner higher relief EPU. The eagle's wing edge fades out completely. This comes with and without the incuse outline.
The third version, on very few 1967's, has a medium EPU and the wing edge is solid again
Dr. James Wiles 2003 Baltimore Handout may be found on the net at:
http://hermes.csd.net/~coneca/content/QuarterRDVHandout.pdf
This identifies all the varieties known from 1972-1972. Note he keeps referring to the Eagle's left wing, viewer's right. But all his pictures show Eagle's right wing, viewer's left - so use those instead.
RDV005 mentions an incuse line. I think he means lack of an incuse line.
Here is a conversion chart of all early Washington quarter Dr. Wiles reverse die variety numbers versus Forum lingo versus my 1986 article.
RDV-001 *** A *** I 1932 dates are date of first appearance
RDV-002 *** B *** IIa 1937
RDV-003 *** C *** IIIo a last minute add on but o stands for original -1964 D C and 5% 1965
RDV-004 *** C *** IIIa1 1965
RDV-005 *** C *** IIIa2 1965
RDV-006 *** C *** IIIb 1967
RDV-007 *** M *** IIIm another add on, but m stands for modified. Also appears as another "C" in forum lingo at times. 1968
RDV-008 *** B *** IIb 1968
RDV-009 *** C *** IIIc all 1973-1974 issues
RDV-010 *** Bicentennial issue (1975) - 1976
RDV-011 *** C *** IVa starting in 1977
etc.
Roman numerals were used many years ago until Walter Breen reserved them for quarter obverses and used letters for reverses.
Strangely enough, he was the same guy that also changed my A, B and C Ike reverses to I, II and III. Go figure.
I have some updated data from Dr. Wiles. 1965 RDV-004, 1968S and 1969D RDV_005 and 1970D RDV-008 are now all confirmed.
So the four 4 1968 S designs were all part of the five 1969 D varieties.
<< Wednesday July 18, 2007 12:58 AM
Keez, You asked for it and here it is and more. To avoid confusing myself, I am going to revert to my original numbering system where a C is called III and I will give a cross reference to James Wiles RDV numbers. I am aware of no other systems that identify the minor varieties.
IIIo (o for original), RDV-003 The 1964-D Rev C which also appears on only 10 % of 1965 and less than .1% 1966 and 1967.
E PLURIBUS UNUM is thick and flat. Looks good on the 1964-D tho. Definite raised border above the field at the inside edge of the left horizontal wing where it joins the eagle's body (as contrasted with IIIa next.) I will keep referring to this same spot as simply the eagle's wing.
IIIa1 and IIIa2, RDV-004 and RDV-005 appears on MOST 1965, 1966, 1967 some 1968 (including S) and 1969-D. Much weaker outline to eagles wing, EPU is in higher relief and thinner. Some have a incuse outling of the inside of the vertical wing segments, hence the second reference number.
IIIb, RDV-006 used in 1967-1972 including 1968 -S. 1969 Phillys are 100% IIIb and rather sharp. slightly doubled master die most obvious on the inside edge of the top of Q of QUARTER. EPU similiar to IIIo but a bit higher in relief. Inside edge of wing sharper than IIIo.
IIIm, RDV-007 used on most 1968-S and 1970-D mint sets. Otherwise on a minority of 1969D, 1970 and 1970D. Special proof artwork made from a IIIb working hub. It has the same doubling. Inside edges of wings in very high relief even more so than rev B. Inside extreme tips of the wings have outline lines.
IIb, RDV-008 used on some 1968-S and all 1969-S thru 1972-S proofs and a very few 1969-D thru 1972-D. Reverse B with the addition of tailfeather centerlines in relief.
IIIc, RDV-009 used on ALL 1973 and 1974. Again the same doubling as IIIb and IIIm so probably made from a IIIb hub. Wing tips have outlines similiar to IIIm, leaves are touched up.
This is the simplified version. There are many more differences than this. Note that 1968-S has 4 varieties and the same 4 varieties are on 1969-D (IIIa, IIIb, IIIm and IIb ) 1969 Philadelphia is IIIb only and San Francisco is IIb only. >>