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Pawn shops / help if you are victimized
Rob85635
Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭
Where I live we have three pawn shows (smaller town). It is required that pawn shops copy all sales transactions and forward them to the police department. I work part time as a dispatcher for our city police department and one of my duties when we are slow is to run these pawn tickets for wanted persons and wanted articles / guns / etc. After I run the basic information the tickets are forwarded to our special operations bureau where any hits (wanted people/stolen goods) are researched and detectives also look at them for any possible matches to open cases. For those who live in an area where reporting information is required, you might find some of this information interesting.
With the increase in drug related crime, the bad economy and the jump in precious metal values I have seen an increase in the sale of coins and other numismatics along with Jewelry (scrap or otherwise) to our local Pawn Shops. I am posting to share a little info that might help any of you should you be the unfortunate victim of a crime involving coins/currency.
I was running pawn tickets the other day when I came across one that listed three confederate notes. The pawn slip was very nondescript only stating one was a $.05 cent note, and the other two were I think dollar or half dollar notes. Some people may not know that serial numbers of bills can be entered into NCIC (National Crime Information Center). You can also enter what are referred to as "OAN"S (owner applied numbers) and for us coin collectors serial numbers from slabs can be entered.
A lot of people are unaware of this information including some police officers themselves, especially in smaller jurisdictions where they don't have a large amount of Numismatic related crime. I have been a dispatcher for over 18 years and dispatchers are generally the ones who input this information so most of us are well versed in entering articles into NCIC. The NCIC manual and the Code Manual fill five three ring binders in our dispatch center by themselves. It is impossible for any one person to know everything in those manuals, the key is knowing how to find what you need. To run the system you have to be certified by the state and that requires taking a test, the test itself is open book because there is soooo much info you could never read it all. Even open book, the test is a booger the first few times you take it until you start to learn how to find the info. I digress...
Should you ever be the victim of a crime like this, make sure you provide serial numbers of notes, serial numbers of slabs and any other OAN's that you may have on coins to the authorities. I am of course not talking about the coins themselves, but if you have a coin in a holder yourself and you have numbered it somehow, that should be able to be entered as well.
You would be surprised at how many criminals will steal something and leave it in the slabs or holders and then go try to pawn it. This is especially prevelent with drug addicts who might just be in a hurry to dump the stolen goods. With the notes I stated above, there were no serial numbers and I am sure the pawn shop is unaware that serial numbers can be traced if they have been entered into NCIC. I forwarded a note to the detective who got the slips asking him to see if there is a way we can get the serial numbers of collectable items listed on the pawn ticket. We will see what comes of it.
I just wanted to share a little knowledge, I can't contribute much to this forum regarding coins as a novice collector but I can speak with some expertise on NCIC
With the increase in drug related crime, the bad economy and the jump in precious metal values I have seen an increase in the sale of coins and other numismatics along with Jewelry (scrap or otherwise) to our local Pawn Shops. I am posting to share a little info that might help any of you should you be the unfortunate victim of a crime involving coins/currency.
I was running pawn tickets the other day when I came across one that listed three confederate notes. The pawn slip was very nondescript only stating one was a $.05 cent note, and the other two were I think dollar or half dollar notes. Some people may not know that serial numbers of bills can be entered into NCIC (National Crime Information Center). You can also enter what are referred to as "OAN"S (owner applied numbers) and for us coin collectors serial numbers from slabs can be entered.
A lot of people are unaware of this information including some police officers themselves, especially in smaller jurisdictions where they don't have a large amount of Numismatic related crime. I have been a dispatcher for over 18 years and dispatchers are generally the ones who input this information so most of us are well versed in entering articles into NCIC. The NCIC manual and the Code Manual fill five three ring binders in our dispatch center by themselves. It is impossible for any one person to know everything in those manuals, the key is knowing how to find what you need. To run the system you have to be certified by the state and that requires taking a test, the test itself is open book because there is soooo much info you could never read it all. Even open book, the test is a booger the first few times you take it until you start to learn how to find the info. I digress...
Should you ever be the victim of a crime like this, make sure you provide serial numbers of notes, serial numbers of slabs and any other OAN's that you may have on coins to the authorities. I am of course not talking about the coins themselves, but if you have a coin in a holder yourself and you have numbered it somehow, that should be able to be entered as well.
You would be surprised at how many criminals will steal something and leave it in the slabs or holders and then go try to pawn it. This is especially prevelent with drug addicts who might just be in a hurry to dump the stolen goods. With the notes I stated above, there were no serial numbers and I am sure the pawn shop is unaware that serial numbers can be traced if they have been entered into NCIC. I forwarded a note to the detective who got the slips asking him to see if there is a way we can get the serial numbers of collectable items listed on the pawn ticket. We will see what comes of it.
I just wanted to share a little knowledge, I can't contribute much to this forum regarding coins as a novice collector but I can speak with some expertise on NCIC
Rob the Newbie
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<< <i>Rob, thanks for the information. It can and should be very beneficial to the collectors here. >>
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<< <i>thank you for taking the time to make others aware of this, now if we could just find a way to boost the integrity of the pawn shop owners............... >>
That is for another thread. I am amazed not only by what is sold, but also by what some of the stuff is sold for. Bullion is pretty straight forward and they all seem to follow a fair buy / sell from what I can tell, but I see stuff all the time that is sold for a fraction of it's value. I guess if you need the money you need the money.
great info.
mucho thanks for sharing.
insurance co's should require this info to be provided to them !
Thanks
<< <i>Just curious, Rob...in your area do coin dealers have to file reports on items bought as well as pawn dealers? What about used booksellers/ thrift stores/used clothing sellers? I'm a B&M coin dealer and in my city we have to pay for a second hand dealer license annually, plus we're required to fill out a form when we buy something OTC; we're essentially treated the same as a pawn shop (unfortunately). >>
As far as I am aware the answer is no. One of the three pawn shops I referred to is actually mainly a coin shop. I went in once and had to leave, they had three people working and they were all smoking like chimneys. Now that AZ has enacted the no smoking ban maybe I can stand to be in there for more than 3 seconds.
I have never seen anything come across for us to run other than the pawn slips themselves. Nothing from any coin shops, used books, thrift stores, etc. As far as I know the duty to report requirements are for "Pawn Shops" only. If there is something for other stores they either don't do it or it is not required, the latter being most likely.
<< <i>Very informative. Especially making up a "number" for raw items in nondescript holders/flips. >>
I need to find out for sure if the "OAN" requires it be attached to something more permanent than a flip, but I don't see why not. If an officer gave me some coins to enter that were in a flip, I would do my best to enter them.
it's highly valuable info.
<< <i>Did you post this in the other collectibles forums? >>
No, but if enough people think it is important enough I suppose I could.
<< <i>Wouldn't take much for a half way clever thief to simply drill out the PCGS cert number and leave the grade. >>
I hope that would raise red flags to any halfway decent pawn shop and they would notify the authorities or at least question it, besides... if your going to drill out the cert # why not just crack it and sell it? Then again, criminals are not always the brightest lot.
keep in mind that there are such things as the Privacy Act which protects the identity of the individual who "pawns" an item. while we do weekly or monthly reports to the local Police Department, we never divulge anyone's identity, only the other pertinent information such as a date/time of a transaction and the item description. it's really noone's business who "pawns" an item and although i'm certain some will cackle about protecting criminals, it's really protecting the individual who may be you. would you want anyone with access knowing what you own and may have at your house??
<< <i>keep in mind that there are such things as the Privacy Act which protects the identity of the individual who "pawns" an item. while we do weekly or monthly reports to the local Police Department, we never divulge anyone's identity, only the other pertinent information such as a date/time of a transaction and the item description. it's really noone's business who "pawns" an item and although i'm certain some will cackle about protecting criminals, it's really protecting the individual who may be you. would you want anyone with access knowing what you own and may have at your house?? >>
You obviously live in a state that does not have the same reporting requirements as Arizona. Your assertion that the Privacy Act protects pawn transactions is wrong or it has not been challenged by the Supreme Court. As you will see below the name address and dob is required information. What they sell/pawn is also required information. There are two pertinant statutes (actually there are more but these two spell it all out). The information provided is required by law. Note in particular the statute requiring reporting to the sheriff. It is very stringent and requires a fingerprint, etc.
From the Arizona Revised Statues title 44:
44-1622. Pawn tickets; requirements
A. All pawn transactions must be evidenced by a pawn ticket that is issued at the time of the pawn transaction.
B. A pawn ticket shall include, at a minimum, all of the following:
1. The name, address and telephone number of the pawnshop and pledgor.
2. The birth date and physical description of the pledgor, including height, weight and hair and eye color.
3. The number and type of the identification document presented by the pledgor.
4. A listing of the articles left in the possession of the pawnbroker.
5. The date of the pawn transaction.
6. The maturity date of the pawn transaction, which shall be set forth in at least twelve point type.
7. The principal amount of the pawn transaction.
8. The following statement in at least ten point type:
"You are not obligated to redeem the pledged goods. The pledged goods will be forfeited to the pawnbroker after the maturity date unless the pledged goods are redeemed or you enter into a new pawn transaction for the pledged goods."
44-1625. Report to sheriff
A. A pawnbroker shall make a true, complete and accurate report each day of each article the pawnbroker receives through a reportable transaction. The report shall be delivered within two business days to the sheriff or the sheriff's designee of the county in which the pawnbroker is licensed by mail, hand delivery or electronic means as approved by the sheriff or the sheriff's designee. For the purposes of this subsection "electronic means" means a computer diskette or modem.
B. The pawnbroker shall make the report of each item received through a reportable transaction on the form provided or approved by the sheriff or the sheriff's designee.
C. The report form provided or approved by the sheriff or his designee shall include at least all of the following:
1. The last, first and middle name of the pledgor or seller.
2. The permanent address and telephone number, if applicable, of the pledgor or seller.
3. The physical description of the pledgor or seller including height, weight, hair and eye color, sex, race and date of birth.
4. The number and type of the identification document presented by the pledgor or seller.
5. An accurate, legible description of each item pledged or sold, including the manufacturer's name, model number, serial number, caliber, size, type of item and any owner applied number, inscription or monogram.
6. The pawnbroker's name and address and the clerk's initials or identifying number.
7. The date and time of the initial pawn or purchase transaction.
8. The type of transaction and initial pawn ticket number.
9. A fingerprint of the pledgor or seller.
D. The pledgor or seller shall sign the report and attest to the following statement that shall appear on the report in ten point bold type:
All information in this report is complete and accurate. I am the owner of the goods described in this report or I am authorized to enter into this pawn or sale transaction on behalf of the owner of the goods described in this report. I understand that I will be guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor if the information in this report is not complete and accurate, if I am not the owner of the goods pledged or sold or if I am not authorized to enter into the pawn or sale transaction on behalf of the owner of the goods.
thus, the reason for my post. laws vary from State to State so it's probably not a good idea to make a blanket statement as you did, perhaps unintentionally misleading a forum member.
GREAT INFO!
Young Numismatist ............................ and growing!
<< <i>thus, the reason for my post. laws vary from State to State so it's probably not a good idea to make a blanket statement as you did, perhaps unintentionally misleading a forum member. >>
How sir did I "perhaps unintentionally" mislead anyone? I assume you are reading the second sentence of my post and taking it out of context. If that is the case then perhaps I should have written it differently... I can edit my post to say "It is required that "OUR" pawn shops copy..." If you feel it would make more sense written that way let me know, I certainly do not want to confuse anyone or mislead them. I thought the context of my sentences would lead the reader to infer that I was talking about pawn shops in my area, not the entire country.
This post is not about Pawn Shops, it is about informing those who may not know that there are avenues available for tracking numismatic losses should that happen to someone. I attempted to use the pawn shop reference to illustrate my point.
In the future perhaps a recommendation on how to better edit my post, or even a PM telling me to fix it would be more constructive than posting that I am making "blanket statements" or "misleading" anyone.
As to privacy act concerns...Keets, I don't recall anything in the Privacy Act that shields the info of a seller in a high risk transaction from being examined by law enforcement, particularly when there is a local ordinance or state law in place that mandates same. In fact, if you actually take a look at the federal Privacy Act you'll see there are a few general exemptions, and 7 specific exemptions: exemption number two (2. 5 U.S.C. § 552a(k)(2)) is for law enforcement agencies.
Link here: http://www.usdoj.gov/opcl/1974tenexemp.htm#seven
(Salient except quoted below: )
" Comments: This exemption covers: (1) material compiled for criminal investigative law enforcement purposes, by nonprincipal function criminal law enforcement entities; and (2) material compiled for other investigative law enforcement purposes, by any agency.
The material must be compiled for some investigative "law enforcement" purpose, such as a civil investigation or a criminal investigation by a nonprincipal function criminal law enforcement agency..."
Given that, the type of reporting legislation re: pawn shops/ coin shops and related business would certainly be covered under this exemption as the info gathered would (obviously) be for investigative law enforcement purposes. Granted it's been a while since my business law classes in college but that's how I read it.
Rob, our ordinance here is just a municipal one at present, and the form we have is a bit more generic but not all that different from yours. Basically it requires all the info that can be found on a driver's license, along with phone number, SSN and brief description of the merchandise, plus a space for a signature/statement that the seller has the right to sell the merchandise.
There's no statewide standard for this in IL at present; it's pretty much left to the municipalities and (in our area here at least) it's more of a way to sell licenses for revenue purposes disguised as a crimefighting tool IMO. Not that it isn't a help in that regard; I've no doubt that it is. I'm just saying that IMO the revenue was the primary reason for its introduction here. (Our city goverment is constantly looking for new revenue streams. Of course, so is the state for that matter...so perhaps there will be another statewide layer of licensing down the line. Who knows?)
RIP Mom- 1932-2012