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Las Vegas PCGS members show report
DennisH
Posts: 14,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
Mrs. H and I drove to Las Vegas Wednesday night for a quickie visit to the PCGS Members 'Grade & Trade' show Thursday, then we drove back this afternoon. The drive out was fast, smooth and easy, arriving in Vegas at about 6:30. (Watch out for police as soon as you cross into Nevada; they were out working and active.) Actually getting from Interstate 15 to the Venetian wasn't so fast and easy, however. Flamingo Road is all torn up, and trying to turn left onto Las Vegas Blvd. was a cruel joke. So we crossed over "The Strip", went down a few long blocks, and turned left on Koval Road to go in the back way instead.
Then the fun of the self-parking garage began. Traffic goes both ways in most of the multi-level maze, which would be OK if everyone drove Honda Civics. Jumbo SUVs and such, however, make for something too much like being inside a pinball machine than I care for. Tip #1: Turn on your headlights. Tip #2: don't trust people to be on just their side of the driving area. Tip #3: Don't expect there to be a lot of well placed directions signs telling you where to go. Tip #4: Just head directly to the 8th level or so and forget about dodging idiots in an attempt to find something lower. The elevators go all the way up just fine.
Fifteen minutes later we start The Hike. Signs inside the parking garage were big, bold, and clear as day compared to signs inside the building. Seriously. Tip #5: Assume nothing; ask directions every time you see someone who looks like they work there. Tell them you want to go to the registration desk and hope that enough of what they say makes enough sense so you at least get close, then ask someone else again. The Venetian, by the way, is huge. It's also busy. Someone told me there's a recession underway, but I don't think I believe them anymore.
An hour after exiting the freeway we finally open the door to our room. I stayed at the Venetian once before and knew what was coming. Mrs. H had not, which is why I wanted to drag her along to a silly old coin show so she could enjoy it herself. She was amazed. Cheap-o rooms at the Venetian are so nice that you actually don't want to go downstairs and gamble. They're split-level and have every goody imaginable, including two flat-screen TVs, two phones, a work desk, and a FAX machine. The bed and bedding are plush and way over the top. This photo doesn't do it justice:
Then I showed Mrs. H the bathroom, which is even more impressive than the room itself. It has a glass shower large enough for 4 good friends that isn't visible in this photo, and please notice the flat-screen (with remote!) over the sinks. I stood there and watched ESPN for a few minutes just because I could. The toilet is behind the closed door on the right... along with another two-line phone in case you get lonely or need to call for help:
After many oohs and aahs we went downstairs, map in hand, to get some dinner. There are many restaurants in the hotel. None of them seem to be affordable at all. We decided on the Cafe Grand Luxe, and were very pleased with the choice. Tip #6: If you eat there do not order a dinner for yourself. The portions are way beyond huge; they're stupid. We shared the chicken pot pie and had to pace ourselves in order to finish. Dessert was a theory when we started, but didn't make it anywhere close to the finish.
The coin show is held in the Palazzo meeting rooms area of the hotel, which actually wasn't too hard to find. But finding the specific room was. Once again, signs were of only partial help. Hotel employees were of even less. Tip #7: You have to go up to the third floor, after passing all of the McDonald's franchisee meetings that take up much of the lower level. We arrived at the PCGS sign-in desk well before 10 a.m. They check your name against a list to verify you are a dealer or a Collectors Club member, then give you a badge to wear around your neck. They let us in way before 10 without even having to ask. I talked PCGS President Don Willis into letting me take his picture holding the free shirt that the first 50 folks received. The embroidery says PCGS Members Only Show, and they're VERY nice!
The coin show room itself is small-ish, but very nice and extremely comfortable. It's fully carpeted, with several round tables and extra chairs in back. There's also plenty of self-serve coffee and other drinks. (I wasn't allowed to take photos of the room itself.) There were essentially two rows of dealers, perhaps six of whom hadn't arrived even by the time we left. All of them had submitted at least 100 coins for on-site grading ($100 each) in order to be there. Everyone's table was the same size. The atmosphere was much different from any show I've ever attended. It was low-key, informal, mellow. Dealers seemed more friendly and enormously more relaxed than at other shows. Many of them had red double-row boxes of certified coins to look through. Lots of PCGS coins. Many were very high ticket items. It was great fun.
What was actually going on, of course, is the dealers were all waiting for their coins to be hand-delivered to them from the grading room by one of the PCGS employees, which seemed to arrive in trickles rather than in multi-box groups. I didn't hear any loud whoops or crying while I was there, if that tells you anything about the grades that were coming through.
I spent an hour on the first row alone and bought just one coin, an 1899-S Morgan in MS64, from Andrew & Mary at Disruptek, LLC from Brooklyn, NY. They're such nice people; be sure to say hello. Andrew wasn't real keen on having his picture taken, but Mary told him to put up with it because she wasn't giving him a choice:
At 11:00 it was time for a Powerpoint presentation on Counterfeit Detection by PCGS grader and variety specialist Mike Faraone. Mike is one of the very nicest, most cordial and helpful people in the entire coin industry. He also knows his stuff about counterfeits. He gave a 90-minute talk showing slides of real and fake coins that have been sent to PCGS, and what they look for to catch bad ones. He also said they're seeing more fakes than ever before -- a few hundred each month -- many of which are from China. The scary part is, he said they're getting better:
After Mike's talk I went back into the show and looked at the second row of tables, which included trying my best to not drool on the MS67 $4 Stella that Peter Cabral (ProCoin) had in his case. Once again I bought just one coin: an 1878 7TF R78 Morgan in MS64. I then went back over to the first side of the room and had a fantastic time talking to Gary Atkins and his son Justin from Eagle Hills Coins. Drooling once again occurred, and I was able to examine the most gorgeous 1895-O Morgan I have ever seen in my life -- a blast white PCGS-65. The 1901-P MS64 was eye-opening too. Those are the kind of monsters they had in their cases. Their boxes of coins that didn't make the cut for display were almost as mind-boggling, such as the other 1901-P MS64 and the 1879-CC MS64 that may be the nicest one I've seen for that date and grade. I was enjoying talking and looking at coins so much that I totally ignored the hot buffet lunch that was available, even though it smelled wonderful.
The members only show was a fantastically run event that was very well worth the time and miles to attend, even if most of the coins on hand were far out of my financial league. But I met nice new people and made stronger relationships with some I already new, which was the best part of the event by far. Thank you PCGS for putting on this event and letting me be a part of it.
Then the fun of the self-parking garage began. Traffic goes both ways in most of the multi-level maze, which would be OK if everyone drove Honda Civics. Jumbo SUVs and such, however, make for something too much like being inside a pinball machine than I care for. Tip #1: Turn on your headlights. Tip #2: don't trust people to be on just their side of the driving area. Tip #3: Don't expect there to be a lot of well placed directions signs telling you where to go. Tip #4: Just head directly to the 8th level or so and forget about dodging idiots in an attempt to find something lower. The elevators go all the way up just fine.
Fifteen minutes later we start The Hike. Signs inside the parking garage were big, bold, and clear as day compared to signs inside the building. Seriously. Tip #5: Assume nothing; ask directions every time you see someone who looks like they work there. Tell them you want to go to the registration desk and hope that enough of what they say makes enough sense so you at least get close, then ask someone else again. The Venetian, by the way, is huge. It's also busy. Someone told me there's a recession underway, but I don't think I believe them anymore.
An hour after exiting the freeway we finally open the door to our room. I stayed at the Venetian once before and knew what was coming. Mrs. H had not, which is why I wanted to drag her along to a silly old coin show so she could enjoy it herself. She was amazed. Cheap-o rooms at the Venetian are so nice that you actually don't want to go downstairs and gamble. They're split-level and have every goody imaginable, including two flat-screen TVs, two phones, a work desk, and a FAX machine. The bed and bedding are plush and way over the top. This photo doesn't do it justice:
Then I showed Mrs. H the bathroom, which is even more impressive than the room itself. It has a glass shower large enough for 4 good friends that isn't visible in this photo, and please notice the flat-screen (with remote!) over the sinks. I stood there and watched ESPN for a few minutes just because I could. The toilet is behind the closed door on the right... along with another two-line phone in case you get lonely or need to call for help:
After many oohs and aahs we went downstairs, map in hand, to get some dinner. There are many restaurants in the hotel. None of them seem to be affordable at all. We decided on the Cafe Grand Luxe, and were very pleased with the choice. Tip #6: If you eat there do not order a dinner for yourself. The portions are way beyond huge; they're stupid. We shared the chicken pot pie and had to pace ourselves in order to finish. Dessert was a theory when we started, but didn't make it anywhere close to the finish.
The coin show is held in the Palazzo meeting rooms area of the hotel, which actually wasn't too hard to find. But finding the specific room was. Once again, signs were of only partial help. Hotel employees were of even less. Tip #7: You have to go up to the third floor, after passing all of the McDonald's franchisee meetings that take up much of the lower level. We arrived at the PCGS sign-in desk well before 10 a.m. They check your name against a list to verify you are a dealer or a Collectors Club member, then give you a badge to wear around your neck. They let us in way before 10 without even having to ask. I talked PCGS President Don Willis into letting me take his picture holding the free shirt that the first 50 folks received. The embroidery says PCGS Members Only Show, and they're VERY nice!
The coin show room itself is small-ish, but very nice and extremely comfortable. It's fully carpeted, with several round tables and extra chairs in back. There's also plenty of self-serve coffee and other drinks. (I wasn't allowed to take photos of the room itself.) There were essentially two rows of dealers, perhaps six of whom hadn't arrived even by the time we left. All of them had submitted at least 100 coins for on-site grading ($100 each) in order to be there. Everyone's table was the same size. The atmosphere was much different from any show I've ever attended. It was low-key, informal, mellow. Dealers seemed more friendly and enormously more relaxed than at other shows. Many of them had red double-row boxes of certified coins to look through. Lots of PCGS coins. Many were very high ticket items. It was great fun.
What was actually going on, of course, is the dealers were all waiting for their coins to be hand-delivered to them from the grading room by one of the PCGS employees, which seemed to arrive in trickles rather than in multi-box groups. I didn't hear any loud whoops or crying while I was there, if that tells you anything about the grades that were coming through.
I spent an hour on the first row alone and bought just one coin, an 1899-S Morgan in MS64, from Andrew & Mary at Disruptek, LLC from Brooklyn, NY. They're such nice people; be sure to say hello. Andrew wasn't real keen on having his picture taken, but Mary told him to put up with it because she wasn't giving him a choice:
At 11:00 it was time for a Powerpoint presentation on Counterfeit Detection by PCGS grader and variety specialist Mike Faraone. Mike is one of the very nicest, most cordial and helpful people in the entire coin industry. He also knows his stuff about counterfeits. He gave a 90-minute talk showing slides of real and fake coins that have been sent to PCGS, and what they look for to catch bad ones. He also said they're seeing more fakes than ever before -- a few hundred each month -- many of which are from China. The scary part is, he said they're getting better:
After Mike's talk I went back into the show and looked at the second row of tables, which included trying my best to not drool on the MS67 $4 Stella that Peter Cabral (ProCoin) had in his case. Once again I bought just one coin: an 1878 7TF R78 Morgan in MS64. I then went back over to the first side of the room and had a fantastic time talking to Gary Atkins and his son Justin from Eagle Hills Coins. Drooling once again occurred, and I was able to examine the most gorgeous 1895-O Morgan I have ever seen in my life -- a blast white PCGS-65. The 1901-P MS64 was eye-opening too. Those are the kind of monsters they had in their cases. Their boxes of coins that didn't make the cut for display were almost as mind-boggling, such as the other 1901-P MS64 and the 1879-CC MS64 that may be the nicest one I've seen for that date and grade. I was enjoying talking and looking at coins so much that I totally ignored the hot buffet lunch that was available, even though it smelled wonderful.
The members only show was a fantastically run event that was very well worth the time and miles to attend, even if most of the coins on hand were far out of my financial league. But I met nice new people and made stronger relationships with some I already new, which was the best part of the event by far. Thank you PCGS for putting on this event and letting me be a part of it.
When in doubt, don't.
0
Comments
your pictures. I feel I was at the show
without having to travel.
Camelot
Good report. I usually stay at the Paris, but the Venetian looks VERY nice !!
First thing I noticed in the pic of the Venetian room is the bed and bedding. Good thing they've replaced their bedspreads with a duvet cover and got rid of that gross blue and gold polyester thing they used to use.
Rumor has it that lunch on Friday will be of a Mexican theme.
The show is being held in one of the "Murano" meeting rooms. That information isn't posted on the electronic convention directories. If I had not run into Miles Standish on the casino floor the night before I would still be looking for the room now.
Don Willis and company have done an excellent job with organization of this show. They deserve praise for a job well done.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Very nice report! Great pics! Thanks
So where are dealers getting those 100 raw coins that are worth the $100 a pop show grading fee?
<< <i>What a terrible waste of electricity for all of those lights.
So where are dealers getting those 100 raw coins that are worth the $100 a pop show grading fee? >>
GEM+ S/D and early date mint marks for silver spot from unsuspecting sellers. Duh! Laugh! *edit: I was just thinking back to that user who posted about a dealer who did this to a couple of kids with WLH. Couldn't help it
Anyways, great report Dennis. Looks like lots of fun. Last time to Vegas was 2004. Didn't even stick around the strip, just left my son's mom and him and headed out to the valley of fire state park for a long alone time hike! ;-)
Thanks for taking the time out to share your trip with everyone.
I wonder what the shirt would bring on eBay
Lincoln set Colorless Set
Thanks.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
K
<< <i>I read the report and enjoyed every word. I wondered why there was so much room between the paragraphs until I read that pictures were included in your report. Is it my computer or have they somehow been removed? Thanks anyway. >>
I think it's your computer. There are 5 photos that accompany the report; all are hosted by Photobucket.
Next time you go, see if you can upgrade your room to one of their suites - more plasma, more phones - 1600 square feet of gilt. My wife and I spent an anniversary there; we laughed when we realized it was bigger than our first house
See any other board members there?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
The show was cozy, and well worth the trip. All the seminars were active, and well-thought out. DH's presentation on the future of the coin market included a great history of coin collecting from the period after WWII, up to the present.
For the future, he sees the best place to be is in true rarities. He compiled a list of all dates of every series with less than 10,000 mintage (regular issue only), and a second list with coins that have no mint state pop at PCGS. Worth reviewing, and there will be some surprises( if you are not familiar with lib gold in the smaller denominations.
It was also nice to visit with several dealers who are too busy to spend time at the bigger shows-Harry Laibstain, Andy Dees, Kenny Duncan.
Kenny reports that he has visited Gregg Bingham at his rehab facility, and Gregg is doing very well--ready to get out of there pronto.
Peter Cabral(formerly with RCW of Dana Point) likes being independent and has several nice bust dollars in F to AU grades
Met John Campbell of S Cal, a collector who recognized me( from the recent video). I'd guess there were over 50 of us there on Thursday and Friday.
Joined Pres. Don Willis and 2 dealers for dinner on Friday night, then on to the cirque de soliel at the Mirage for some Beatles songs and dance.
A fine 2 days of fun.
These days you'll see more people than ever walking around both indoors and out for the sake of doing so, not doing anythimg in particular instead of occupying themselves in gambling or seeing shows. Many of the better known high end restaurants are now offering more inexpensive alternate set-course "sampler" menus, and room rates are on average about 25 percent cheaper than they were last year..last month the walk-up rate for a weeknight at the Wynn was a mere $99, a rate that was unimaginable this time last year. Other signs include casino companies halting or delaying construction projects (Venetian, Caesars, Echelon) lower table limits (Bellagio) and casino companies in or on the verge of chapter 11 (Station Casinos, L.V. Sands).
Anyways, despite the negativity I still believe Las Vegas is one awesome place to visit and I still find its aura of seduction irresistable.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Not a rosy picture and all one has to do is read the two online Vegas papers to get the daily bad news. We were seriously contemplating a second home out there as we travel out there frequently and I have been following their economic woes the past couple of years and they reflect what is happening in other areas of the country. Vegas hasn't been immune to economic hardship.
Anyway thanks for the great show reports and comments from the attendees, very enjoyable to read first hand reports.
<< <i>Just because there are large crowds on the street doesn't mean Vegas isn't hurting, because it is. They have the third largest number of foreclosures %wise in the nation, one in 60 homes is in foreclosure. In some areas homes have depreciated 33% to 50%. Occupancy rates have fallen into the low 80's versus a normal hotel rate of 93% plus. Industrial vacancies are soaring and Vegas is bracing itself for a run on commercial foreclosures. MGM is looking to sell off casinos in order to finish up City Center, which has already been scaled down. Retail vacancies are going up at alarming rates with very few takers. Several casinos are either in bankruptcy or contemplating it.
Not a rosy picture and all one has to do is read the two online Vegas papers to get the daily bad news. We were seriously contemplating a second home out there as we travel out there frequently and I have been following their economic woes the past couple of years and they reflect what is happening in other areas of the country. Vegas hasn't been immune to economic hardship.
Anyway thanks for the great show reports and comments from the attendees, very enjoyable to read first hand reports.
I have a place in Las Vegas and this is stuff I use some effort to pay attention to.
Personally I believe the real foreclosure rate is even higher than that. On the other hand of all the new developments in construction now I believe CityCenter has the best upside. With the exception of the Harmon Resort (because of a construction flaw) and from the sale of T.I. there appears to be sufficient funding to finish construction.
Consider the complete halt to construction of Echelon, that would have been a decision considered to be unfathomable just two years ago.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Thank you for the report. I loved
your pictures. I feel I was at the show
without having to travel.
Thanks!
TahoeDale: sorry I missed an opportunity to visit with you. I was frantically packing fedex boxes to make a 3pm deadline!
For any of you thinking about attending the next event (whenever that is)...I highly recommend it!
Thanks again PCGS...
No problem. I found a dealer who wanted the 1804 bust quarter in Au 55, and we made a good deal.
Hope you got the FEDEx package off on time.
dale
Hope you got the FEDEx package off on time.
Ouch!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
We learned a lot, and I promise our next one
Scrambled to find a room and got one at a La Quinta. It wasn't much more than the cost to switch the submission to one that would be mailed to me if I just drove back that night. Everyone was exhausted, but I decided to make the 1 mile walk to the Strip at 9:30pm. I don't gamble, but did put $1 into a slot machine and played to cash out at $12. If only I could consistently get returns like that with coins! .....and in 5 minutes or less!
Returned this afternoon and my order was ready .... sort of. Two of the four crossovers didn't makes the cut and that didn't surprise me, but were worth trying. The other two are pending but highly promising. One is a sure cross as it was in a flip today, cracked from its holder. They are both great coins that deserve to be in PCGS plastic. They'll have to mail them to me from the home office. All cool by me though. Made the [LONG] trip worthwhile for me. I chatted with Sandy a little at their table. Nice person whom I have seen a number of times but finally know her name. Wanted to talk with Heritage but I didn't know the couple people mannign their table and they were busy processing a consignment anyway.
The drive back was smoother than expected and seemed like half of what the drive there was. Bizarre actually in that.
Turn out was light but my arrival, during HRH's talk, was awkward. Didn't get a good sense of the event. It did looked well put together. I appreciate their doing it and extending it to the CC members too. I'd go again, with perhaps better personal planning next time.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Of course, I have not seen the bill for Mrs. Claychaser's spa experience........
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
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<< <i>What a terrible waste of electricity for all of those lights.
So where are dealers getting those 100 raw coins that are worth the $100 a pop show grading fee? >>
Don't forget about crossovers and regrades. (That (crossovers) was my primary thing there apart from the social aspect.)
I look forward to attending another of these. My advice is to come early. I did the 681 mile round trip drive, arriving at the meeting area as HRH was starting his Friday talk. Would have liked to have been in there, but was dazed from the driving and had a wife, two kids and a dog to get a hotel room for. (After seeing Dennis' pics, I sure wish I had done the Venetian, as I did call in to reserve in advance, for the same price as the La Quinta I did get.) Day driving sure was a lot better than night driving though. I preferred the latter 20 years ago but not anymore. A little more time cushion, with an earlier arrival in Vegas, and some coordination with other CC members and some dealers (dinners, shows, ...) would have made for a great time. Will have to do that next time around. I do know PCGS did a very fine job of setting this all up.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
a first class company. Well done indeed!
Camelot
Would have been nice to see you too, Lloyd, while there. Again, I was uncoordinated. Ran into claychaser; but he was busy. Next time.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Also, Jaime asked if he could interview me for the PCGS website, and of course, I was honored and happy to comply. I'm anxious to see how it turns out! Any way, I join all those in thanking PCGS for putting on this great show, and definitely look forward to the next one!
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