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Does die polish decrease the grade?

LRCTomLRCTom Posts: 857 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I just bought a really nice Seated Quarter, a higher-mint-state piece, which, at first glance, appears hairlined. But, under magnification, it's clear that those aren't hairlines, they're fairly heavy die-polish lines. The fields are semi-proofilke from this polishing.

What's your experience...does visible die polishing cause a reduction in grade at PCGS or NGC? It seems to me that it shouldn't, but they've mystified me before...

...Tom

LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics

Comments

  • Bayard1908Bayard1908 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭✭
    In my experience, no. Just be sure that those lines are above the surface of the coin.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, although they can detract from the eye appeal on some coins, which could negatively affect the value when there is a choice between a coin with polishing lines and one without.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • LRCTomLRCTom Posts: 857 ✭✭✭
    Yep, they definitely are above the surface. 30x microscope confirmed.

    LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
    http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics

  • zeebobzeebob Posts: 2,825 ✭
    Funny, I just was exploring that with regarding a flying eagle cent and a 1943-S cent.

    Die polish marks do not affect most grades. Eye appeal comes into play at 66+ grades and I can see where "market grades" might be affected (ie a 67 becomes a 66).

    However, die polish marks do affect eye appeal at many grades, 50-64 anyway. So the polish marks can affect price.

    In my case the MS64 flying eagle cent (PCGS) only had slight marks and I liked the coin so I bought it.

    In my case the MS-67 1943-S 1C (ANACS) was shiny enough the die polish marks bothered me - I gave the coin away and replaced it with one in an MS-66 grade from PCGS that had better eye appeal. I paid more for the nice 66 than the 67.
  • Mercury10cMercury10c Posts: 2,958
    They do not affect the technical grade but they can affect the market grade.
  • ProcoinsProcoins Posts: 8
    Hi
    I am a coin dealer and it the marks are really die polish it does not affect the value of the coin.
    Joe
    www.procoins.com
    http://www.procoins.com/images/
    18098.jpg
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Should not detract from the technical grade at all. If the die polish lines are prominent and generally considered unattractive to most collectors, it could negatively impact the market value. But it should not cause a downgrade, IMO.
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,938 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hi
    I am a coin dealer and it the marks are really die polish it does not affect the value of the coin.
    Joe
    www.procoins.com >>




    Joe, 2 posts since 2004????

    You sir are granted CU Forumeister 2009!!!!! image
  • MisterBungleMisterBungle Posts: 2,308 ✭✭✭

    Wow Joe!! You win "Member With The Fewest Posts Average"
    with your 2 posts since May of 2004.

    Sorry, you don't actually WIN anything, but it's still kind of cool.

    ~


    "America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.

  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow Joe!! You win "Member With The Fewest Posts Average"
    with your 2 posts since May of 2004.

    Sorry, you don't actually WIN anything, but it's still kind of cool.

    ~ >>



    I hereby grant you the esteemed degree of Doctor of Lurkology.
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image back Joe.image


    Hoard the keys.
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Die polish lines add character. Many NGC PL coins have lots of die polish lines.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,845 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Die polish lines add character. >>



    Agree. They can also help identify a specific die that struck a coin.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    With the number of heavy die polished UHR coins being reported I was looking for an answer to this question. From what some of you say it should not affect the technical grade... just the market grade.

    So... without starting a new UHR tread, I thought I would regenerate this one.

    Do you think that a UHRDE with die polish marks can make MS70? Why or Why not?
  • sweetwillietsweetwilliet Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Wow Joe!! You win "Member With The Fewest Posts Average"
    with your 2 posts since May of 2004.

    Sorry, you don't actually WIN anything, but it's still kind of cool.

    ~ >>



    I hereby grant you the esteemed degree of Doctor of Lurkology. >>



    Quite impressive, average post count per day is 0.00. Now don't post too much, or your post count will venture into positive numbers.image

    Welcome, or welcome back!!
    Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
    Will’sProoflikes
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭
    I had a MS68 '43 Lincoln with heavy die polish lines, I actually liked the look and don't think that it was downgraded because of them.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think its hard to say. I just had a Merc dime that is loaded with die polish that did not cross from a NGC slab to a PCGS slab. It would be nice to find out if the polish was the reason or the FB designation. The coin had everything else, look wise.

    Ken
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,489 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>They do not affect the technical grade but they can affect the market grade. >>




    I believe that's the other way around. Market grading is guess work while there's a little more to technical grading. Of recent with Teletrade, the discussion of die polishing was a less acceptable aspect if present on a coin. It is, in fact a repair to a worn or damaged working die. If you get a nice coin from that die it's still limited to the flaws that once were or covered up. Much like the pothole that used to be in the road but now it's all patched up.


    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Die polish lines does not affect the grade...
    Ebay items for sale Current BIN's / The Kingdom Collection
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,489 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hi
    I am a coin dealer and it the marks are really die polish it does not affect the value of the coin.
    Joe
    www.procoins.com >>



    Hi
    I am a coin collector and if the marks are really die polish they would affect the value of the coin, for me
    anyway. Because I would want a coin without them if at all possible. Not that you're incorrect in what you say
    as there are more folks out there who could care less how die polish marks ultimately affect the
    overall quality of the coin.


    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't like die polish especially on higher grade uncs.

    I think it looks worse on copper nickel than on silver.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I just had a Merc dime that is loaded with die polish that did not cross from a NGC slab to a PCGS slab. It would be nice to find out if the polish was the reason or the FB designation. The coin had everything else, look wise.

    Ken >>

    It didn't cross because of the white slab, not the die polish.
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So if no one likes Die Polish lines on thier coins then the market says the coin should not make a perfect 70?

    I think that I have heard the phrase "as minted" before, thus technically a perfect (as minted with polish lines) could make a 70?


    My opinion is that polish lines are irregularities and therefore not perfect, thus never reaching 70.

    Has anyone ever seen a newer bullion coin (gold or silver) with die polish lines graded 70?

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