The PCGS Brand or the NGC Star?

OneCent · January 10, 2009 2:04PM

Let's say you have a spectacularly toned raw coin that you are certain would grade. In fact you are 97.5% sure that if you send it to NGC it would get a star designation. Otoh, if you send it to PCGS the coin will get a very respectable grade.

You have no interest in keeping the coin, and are only interested in maximizing your profits in the sale after you receive the coin back from grading.

Who do you send the coin to?

MidLifeCrisis · January 10, 2009 2:09PM

What type of coin is it?

No matter...I'd still send it to PCGS.

Type2 · January 10, 2009 2:10PM

More bang for the buck $$$$. But thats just me.

Meltdown · January 10, 2009 2:10PM

Tough call. I've seen the star holders go for moon money before but not always.
It really depends on the coin's character, eye appeal or color... whatever you want to call it.
Got a picture?

STONE · January 10, 2009 2:13PM

PCGS definitely. NGC's credibility for a quality TPG is greatly slipping with many highly overgraded toners losing substancial value (even * coins) when compared against a similar PCGS coin.

I noticed at the FUN auction that there were too many NGC toners that overgraded, and many didn't even have the * designation. Therefore, I can't tell if NGC bumps the coin up a grade or two for eye-appeal or if they use the * as a substitute. Either way I'd still choose PCGS.
(Let me also clarify that PCGS had several coins at auction that I felt were also overgraded, but not toner-wise)

OneCent · January 10, 2009 2:18PM

This is a pure hypothetical, I have no actual coin that fits the scenario described.

I have drank the kool-aid with regard to pcgs, but I voted star. I think that case can be made...

robkool · January 10, 2009 2:21PM

PCGS ALL THE WAY !!!

halfhunter · January 10, 2009 2:51PM

I'm a little torn on this one. I think it was a great concept. It's just that it hasn't been carried out with consistency. JMO

Also wholesaleing the star on most of the Battle Creeks, IMO, really served to cheapen the entire program.

Regards,

John

Sierra · January 10, 2009 3:14PM

PCGS. Come On!

MarkInDavis · January 10, 2009 4:00PM

I've definitely noticed that as the coin market has softened the price spread between PCGS and NGC coins has increased. That said, I haven't really looked at NGC * coins in particular. I would stick with PCGS. If the coin is * quality, one should be able to see that just looking at the coin.

Bcsican · January 10, 2009 4:06PM

I still would send to PCGS...to me the money wont out weigh what I feel is a better way to go....

Unknown · January 10, 2009 5:03PM

This content has been removed.

tightbudget · January 10, 2009 5:10PM

I honestly don't know. I guess it'd be different for every coin.

keoj · January 10, 2009 10:16PM

Back to basics....isn't it about the coin and not the holder?

tmcsr69 · January 10, 2009 10:48PM

IMHO this is a no brainer - always go PCGS in this type situation. While the NGC star does help in rare situations, overall I feel it is almost as worthless as a sticker as far a coins value goes.

Halfhunter06 · January 11, 2009 12:21AM

PCGS definitely. NGC's credibility for a quality TPG is greatly slipping

I agree. NGC is going down. I wont buy any NGC coins and the ones I have I plan to get rid of. Its PCGS only

TorinoCobra71 · January 11, 2009 12:26AM

PCGS.......

TwoSides2aCoin · January 11, 2009 12:39AM

When in Rome

go into roaming.

sTONER · January 11, 2009 12:42AM

years ago the star coins were deserving imho,, today its questionable,, PCGS for me 95% of the time in these tough times

RedTiger · January 11, 2009 12:52AM

For toners I would lean towards PCGS. I've seen way too many questionable toners in NGC holders, with and without the star. For more generic coins, it depends on the series. As always, I would lean towards data, and see what the prices are at true auction. If is a thinly traded coin and not a widget, then as always, evaluate the coin on its own merits.

leothelyon · January 11, 2009 12:56AM

To shell out any amount of money for any kind of slab, star or sticker without regards to the qualitative (thank you CoinJunkie) nature of the beast is total irresponsibility in building a high quality collection.
Translation: A true coin collector will always know the quality of coin he's after before the arrival of and he won't hesitate to return it when he's not completely satisfied or if he's not convinced the price fits the quality and that he can resell it later to recoup his funds.

Leo

ColonialCoinUnion · January 11, 2009 1:07AM

This is a no-brainer. PCGS.

fcloud · January 11, 2009 1:12AM

PCGS--

NGC coins don't fit in the registry.

You could always send it off to PCGS first and then CAC.

OneCent · January 11, 2009 1:15AM

<< To shell out any amount of money for any kind of slab, star or sticker without regards to the qualitative (thank you CoinJunkie) nature of the beast is total irresponsibility in building a high quality collection.
Translation: A true coin collector will always know the quality of coin he's after before the arrival of and he won't hesitate to return it when he's not completely satisfied or if he's not convinced the price fits the quality and that he can resell it later to recoup his funds.

Leo >>

I agree with your comments. However, they are irrelevant to the question being asked. The goal is simply to "package" the coin in the most advantageous fashion so that profits can be maximized. Given the same grade and same coin, does having the PCGS brand behind the coin carry the day OR does having the NGC "Star" designation add more value (read $$$'s). Granted there are other variables in play that in reality may not be as simplistic as the scenario described. But for sake of discussion, we are speaking in general terms.

anablep · January 11, 2009 2:36AM

Doesn't a CAC sticker remove any need for a star designation?

ColonialCoinUnion · January 11, 2009 2:39AM

<< Doesn't a CAC sticker remove any need for a star designation? >>

They mean completely different things.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 11, 2009 2:46AM

Rut Roh

Let's drag a ca ca ca ca cat into this !

Coxe · January 11, 2009 3:04AM

The stars are being applied to transitory features. Yes, the most spectacular endrollers have had some following since slabbing started. But for most of the years, blast white (for silver) was more coveted. This is why we have so many amateurishly overdipped silver coins. If they only really did the star for PQ for the grade, I am still not aboard. We already have enough grades., and further stratification doesn't make sense to me because of TPG history.

The problem is that TPGs have not maintained strict adherence to a technical grading standard. They have done grading based on maket acceptability. Had they maintained the technical standard, I could see a place for a star or "PQ" to represent an especially attractive coin for the grade. Cant really justify it if the grades are not reliable to start. How did htis all drift? I suppose there could be much debate and nobody has the answer for certain. However, I suspect what drove it was when the sight-unseen market developed technicaal grading had to flex to be responsible to that subeconomy in the hobby. A butt-ugly technical MS64 wasn't worth the same as a super lustrous and well struck MS64 that has enough hits to keep from a technical MS65. So they ended up MS63 and MS65, respectively.

I have been a critic of TPGs getting involved with any valuation grading, instead of just strict technical grading. It is a pseudo-Germanic view a lot of us OCD type folks hold. But I do recognize that it has been impossible to rationalize that under the pressures of the sight-unseen market that was instrumental for TPG survival from the get-go.

tjkillian · January 11, 2009 3:11AM

<< PCGS definitely. NGC's credibility for a quality TPG is greatly slipping I agree. NGC is going down. I wont buy any NGC coins and the ones I have I plan to get rid of. Its PCGS only >>

GoldenEyeNumismatics · January 11, 2009 3:22AM

NGC star.

PerryHall · January 11, 2009 3:43AM

<< NGC star. >>

Agree. I'm glad we're not all Koolaid drinkers.

coinkat · January 11, 2009 4:00AM

It is kind of interesting that this discussion is ongoing without any consideration of what is in the holder...

Sorry, but it really depends on the coin.

PerryHall · January 11, 2009 4:05AM

<< It is kind of interesting that this discussion is ongoing without any consideration of what is in the holder...
Sorry, but it really depends on the coin. >>

The way I read the question, there's only one coin. You pick which holder that you would prefer to house that one coin.

leothelyon · January 11, 2009 4:42AM

<< 

<< To shell out any amount of money for any kind of slab, star or sticker without regards to the qualitative (thank you CoinJunkie) nature of the beast is total irresponsibility in building a high quality collection.
Translation: A true coin collector will always know the quality of coin he's after before the arrival of and he won't hesitate to return it when he's not completely satisfied or if he's not convinced the price fits the quality and that he can resell it later to recoup his funds.

Leo >>

I agree with your comments. However, they are irrelevant to the question being asked. The goal is simply to "package" the coin in the most advantageous fashion so that profits can be maximized. Given the same grade and same coin, does having the PCGS brand behind the coin carry the day OR does having the NGC "Star" designation add more value (read $$$'s). Granted there are other variables in play that in reality may not be as simplistic as the scenario described. But for sake of discussion, we are speaking in general terms. >>

A couple of reasons why one packaging is better than the other is from experience, learning that there's a higher chance of satisfaction in quality and the return of funds with one company over another. (Depending on the series as some will vouch).
But the big difference is always the coin and not the packaging some use for the clueless, sight-unseen crowd. But that doesn't neccesarily translate to higher sales? Unless you're thinking by including the sight-unseen buyers, (like they really know what they're buying in quality) that this will, in some way, maximize your profits. This is also wishful thinking, at best.
In short, for the true coin collector, the quality of the coin will always matter no matter how it's packaged while it should be of great concern for anyone buying sight-unseen without a return policy. A return policy many of those major auction houses will not let you have.

Leo

mozin · January 11, 2009 8:24AM

PCGS for sure. I don't even own one NGC* coin. Of course, the CAC sticker should be placed on the PCGS holder to maximize profits.

coinkat · January 11, 2009 9:12AM

Again... it depends on the coin.

Think about this for a moment.

lordmarcovan · January 11, 2009 9:15AM

I see the pitcher of Kool-Aid is not quite so full as when I voted in this poll last night.

I voted to take a sip of the Kool-Aid, personally- I'll go with PCGS brand recognition over the NGC star any day, and I'll be my own judge of which coins are worthy of a star or a sticker or a lollipop or whatever.

It would be interesting to see the outcome of this same poll, taken across the street.

TheRegulator · January 11, 2009 9:24AM

PCGS.

The new NGC slabs suck.

IloiloKano · January 11, 2009 9:25AM

If the coin is generally on the lower end of the value scale (implying that you might get a higher percentage of uninformed collectors bidding), then go with NGC. On the other hand, if the coin has substantial value on its own merits, or if it is a very small coin that could have much of itself obscurred by NGC's New and Improved, but Butt Ugly tabby edge view holders, go with PCGS.

Edited to add... so it depends on the coin as numerous posters have already stated.

PerryHall · January 11, 2009 9:58AM

I'll take the black NGC slab.

Bear · January 11, 2009 11:06AM

My dream would be PCGS PQ

erwindoc · January 21, 2009 1:41PM

I think it depends on the series of coin. If you look at the NGC Registry, star coins give a small premium of points compared to similar grade without the star. The top registry folks on NGC are always looking for ways to one up their competition and many are willing to pay more for quality in the form of a currently graded star coin or a PCGS coin that could be crossed over to NGC Star.

dsessom · January 22, 2009 4:41AM

PCGS with a CAC sticker!

doh · January 22, 2009 5:05AM

I'm surprised anybody voted for the star. I overheard this once at a show:
"You're cracking out an NGC Star???"
"Of course, I'm sending it to PCGS."
"Why would you do that? What if if downgrades?"
"Big deal, a PCGS 66 is worth more than a NGC 67 Star anyway."

I believe the coin was high end Seated Dime.

I have no personal experience, but I'd always go with PCGS.

MikeInFL · January 22, 2009 7:14AM

<< Who do you send the coin to? >>

Neither. If you know who to sell to, a raw coin can be sold for just as much or more, with less risk to you (greater fool theory).

Edscoin · January 22, 2009 11:47AM

Neither slab will change the coin in any way. The coin is worth what it is worth. However most collectors will pay a premium for the slab, so I would send it to PCGS.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · January 22, 2009 11:50AM

<< I'm surprised anybody voted for the star. I overheard this once at a show:
"You're cracking out an NGC Star???"
"Of course, I'm sending it to PCGS."
"Why would you do that? What if if downgrades?"
"Big deal, a PCGS 66 is worth more than a NGC 67 Star anyway."

I believe the coin was high end Seated Dime.

I have no personal experience, but I'd always go with PCGS. >>

99% of the time a PCGS 66 will be worth less than an NGC 67 Star. Maybe that was a very specific piece the guy was cracking out.

NGC gets kicked around too much here.

Coxe · January 22, 2009 11:55AM

Yes, the kool-ade was mixed a bit too strong for some folks' constitutions.

And what is the point, BTW, of getting a CAC on an NGC 67 and then cracking it out to submit to PCGS?

OneCent · January 22, 2009 12:03PM

There are many, many spectacular coins in NGC* holders.

doh · January 22, 2009 12:04PM

<< 99% of the time a PCGS 66 will be worth less than an NGC 67 Star. >>

Hmm... I think it's 50/50 at best personally.

Edited to add: It's not "drinking the kool-aid" when it's the truth. If you put the same coin in a PCGS holder and in an NGC holder, the PCGS coin is worth (or at least sells for) more. That's Coin Collecting 101 my friends.

JCMhouston · January 22, 2009 2:04PM

<< 

<< Edited to add: It's not "drinking the kool-aid" when it's the truth. If you put the same coin in a PCGS holder and in an NGC holder, the PCGS coin is worth (or at least sells for) more. That's Coin Collecting 101 my friends. >>

That's funny, I visited one of the "leading dealers" site over the past few months, one who is no longer welcome here. They have had several identical graded coins, one in NGC one in PGGS. Even without the star the NGC was more, they both had green stickers of course.

Now maybe they got bammed because they aren't smart enough to be big time dealers?

The PCGS Brand or the NGC Star?

Comments

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

My Jefferson Nickel Collection

Leave a Comment