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Thread Title: Longacre, did you loan this gold coin (1844-O Proof Eagle) to the New Orleans Mint?
Created On Wednesday November 05, 2008 12:21 PM


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RYK
Dirty Gold Man

Posts: 29640
Joined: Jan 2003

Wednesday November 05, 2008 12:21 PM

Link to article on DW website

After a probable absence of over a century, perhaps the most important New Orleans gold coin in existence is coming back to its ancestral home. My friend Paul Hollis, a coin dealer from Metairie (a suburb of New Orleans), has arranged for the unique Proof 1844-O eagle to be placed on exhibit at the New Orleans mint. This coin, with an estimated value of $2.5 million, goes on public display November 1 and will also be taken around Louisiana on tour by Hollis.

The New Orleans Mint began producing coins in 1838. The very first issue struck by this mint was a group of 20 half dollars to inaugurate coinage and a small group of Proof half dollars were made in 1839 (plus at least one Dime dated 1839-O is known that has been designated a �Specimen� by NGC). So, we know that the New Orleans mint had experience with making Proof coins and that the quality of these was comparable to that seen at the Philadelphia mint.

In 1844, the New Orleans mint produced at least one example of a Proof half eagle and eagle. Remarkably, both still exist and, even more remarkably, both are superbly preserved. Why were they produced and who were they struck for?

Unfortunately, contemporary documentation does not exist that gives the definitive answer to these questions, so we have to make some assumptions. I think it�s safe to say that the Proof 1844-O gold set was struck in commemoration of either a special event or, more likely, a visit to the Mint by some special VIP or dignitary. My guess would be that they were made for personal presentation to President John Tyler.

What is interesting about these 1844-O Proofs is that there were no other Proof gold issues produced at the branch mints until 1854 when San Francisco struck a double eagle in this format. But in the case of the 1854-S double eagle, the reason for producing the coin is obvious as it was made to commemorate the opening of the new mint. One would think that if New Orleans were to have made gold Proofs, they would have struck a small number of Proof quarter eagles in 1839 or half eagles in 1840. But if these were ever made, they have disappeared without a trace.

The earliest numismatic reference to the 1844-O Proofs appears to be in the Seavey descriptive catalog that was published in 1873. In 1890 when they were sold as part of the famous Parmelee collection the eagle sold (as Lot 1151) for the princely sum of $16 while its companion half eagle brought just $9.50. It was next seen in the collection of William Woodin who was famous both as a coin collector and as Secretary of the Treasury for Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1933.

Woodin sold his primary collection at auction in 1911 but I am not aware if the Proof 1844-O set was included in either of his two sales (it would be easy to check these in the sale catalogs but my library does not contain them). It is documented that Woodin also sold many of his coins privately to the leading collectors and dealers of the day. I do not know this with certainty but I surmise that the 1844-O Proofs went into the Brand collection.

From here on, the pedigree chain for the 1844-O half eagle and eagle gets murky. In fact, I think it is possible that the coins were split up when the Brand collection was being sold in the 1920�s and 1930�s.

The half eagle was in all likelihood sold to Waldo Newcomer and then likely went into the Colonel Green collection. From there it is believed to have been sold to King Farouk and remained in this collection until it was forcibly sold at auction in 1954. It was later sold to a prominent Texas collector (not Harry Bass, by the way...) by Abe Kosoff in 1959. I was shown the Proof half eagle in the early 1990�s by the Texas dealer Michael Brownlee. It was still in the original flip with Kosoff�s writing on it. I used it as the cover coin of the first edition of my New Orleans book. The coin is a superb Gem.

Brownlee told me soon after showing me the Proof 1844-O half eagle that he believed the Proof eagle existed but he didn�t know where it was. In fact, he claimed, he had been searching for it for many years as he desperately wanted to reunite the two coins in the prominent Texas collection (which he had built and was, rightfully, very proud of).

If Newcomer did, in fact, buy both the half eagle and eagle, it is not likely that Col. Green would have purchased the eagle as he was not specializing in this denomination. What would be interesting to learn was, if the coins were indeed split up, in which collections did it reside between the 1920�s and the 1990�s.

Did Brownlee know where this coin was all along? I have my theories but won�t expound on them here. I will say, however, that his search for the elusive Proof 1844-O eagle was rewarded when, in the late 1990�s, he announced that the coin was �rediscovered.� It was sent to NGC where it was ultimately graded PR66 Cameo. Then, it was offered for sale by dealer Robert Leece at various price levels for a number of years.

Finally, the coin was sold to a Florida collector in 2006 by Louisiana dealer Chuck Bloomfield. The price was reported to be $1.5 million.

I have had a chance to examine the Proof 1844-O eagle and it is a simply amazing coin. It is 100% unquestionably a Proof with incredible cameo contrast and a deep �black and white� appearance that one wouldn�t expect to see on a Proof gold coin from this era, let alone one from New Orleans.

If you are going to be in the New Orleans area in the coming months, I urge you to take a look at this great coin and to visit the New Orleans mint.

Doug Winter
11/5/08

-------------------------
In memory of IGWT:

Dirty Gold Coins

"The more you rely on others and external factors to dictate what and how you collect, the more likely you will be disappointed with your collection, the market, dealers, the grading services, etc."

Edited: Sunday November 16, 2008 at 10:52 AM by RYK

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Stella
Senior Member

Posts: 270
Joined: Apr 2008

Wednesday November 05, 2008 12:22 PM

I am sorry to say that Longacre was not the benefactor. It is my coin which is now on display at the New Orleans Mint.

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Are you a numismatic fanatic?

~Sarah, YN

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Longacre
Socratic Methodist

Posts: 17267
Joined: Jul 2004

Wednesday November 05, 2008 12:32 PM

Why did you have to phrase your thread in the form of a question?

Unfortunately, it is not my coin (but it looks incredible). Did Hollis run for congress, or was that last year? Did he win?

-------------------------
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)

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Dennis88
Master Collector

Posts: 5963
Joined: Sep 2003

Wednesday November 05, 2008 12:38 PM

A few facts about this coin:

1. Gold
2. Proof
3. Branch Mint
4. Pre 1858

To certain collectors, 1 of these will have a special meaning. Gold still remains sort of elusive, kids learn at school that gold is scarce and valuable. Proof means a special striking with special care, not for general circulation and normaly sold at a premium. Branch Mint is something which was invented after 45 years of production at only 1 Mint in Philadelphia and every branch Mint has a special meaning to collectors. Pre 1858, well wasn't that when coin collecting slowly became more popular?

Combine all of this and you get something beautiful and unique as the above coin. Proof early copper is incredibly rare, Proof early gold even more so. But a branch Mint, proof gold coin minted before proof coins were generally sold for collectors is a true miracle to own, hold, study or just look at it on a computer screen.

Dennis

-------------------------
What is this land of America, so many travel there
I'm going now while I'm still young, my darling meet me there
Wish me luck my lovely, I'll send for you when I can
And we'll make our home in the American land
Bruce Springsteen - American Land

Edited: Wednesday November 05, 2008 at 12:58 PM by Dennis88

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Broadstruck
Errors, HTT's, SLQ's

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Wednesday November 05, 2008 1:04 PM

-------------------------
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!

~ TOTALLY NEW FRESHLY PICKED BST OFFERINGS MAJOR EYE CANDY... MORE GOODIES JUST ADDED! ~

In Memory of IGWT & SilverEagles92

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RYK
Dirty Gold Man

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Joined: Jan 2003

Wednesday November 05, 2008 1:10 PM

I guess they will not want my gold dollar any longer.

-------------------------
In memory of IGWT:

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BECOKA
Choose Your Title

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Wednesday November 05, 2008 1:39 PM

Stunning, wish I had the means to take a trip to NO.

-------------------------
My PCGS Showcase of Classic Head Half Eagle Varieties

Articles and How To's, I take requests too.

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RWB
Master Collector

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Wednesday November 05, 2008 1:40 PM

One of the few �branch mint proofs� that really looks like a mirror proof. However, my hypothesis is that all of the �real� branch mint proofs were actually struck at Philadelphia. That was the only mint that had a medal press capable of bringing up the design as on the 1844-O examples.

As to reason for the coin�s existence, one might better look at VIP visitors to Philadelphia (particularly semi-official types from France or Britain), or State Department uses, rather than anything in New Orleans. (Records from the latter half of the 19th century occasionally include requests for coins by the State Department. These are commonly for a VIP or a national collection or some unspecified use. I would expect similar occurrences during the pre-Civil War era, too.)

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Broadstruck
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Wednesday November 05, 2008 1:45 PM

Edited: Wednesday November 05, 2008 at 1:49 PM by Broadstruck

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Broadstruck
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Wednesday November 05, 2008 1:49 PM

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RYK
Dirty Gold Man

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Wednesday November 05, 2008 1:51 PM

<< One of the few �branch mint proofs� that really looks like a mirror proof. However, my hypothesis is that all of the �real� branch mint proofs were actually struck at Philadelphia. That was the only mint that had a medal press capable of bringing up the design as on the 1844-O examples.

As to reason for the coin�s existence, one might better look at VIP visitors to Philadelphia (particularly semi-official types from France or Britain), or State Department uses, rather than anything in New Orleans. (Records from the latter half of the 19th century occasionally include requests for coins by the State Department. These are commonly for a VIP or a national collection or some unspecified use. I would expect similar occurrences during the pre-Civil War era, too.) >>

Who's to say the coin was actually struck in 1844?

Fascinating coin and story. I have no plans to visit the N.O. in the near future. Perhaps someday it may be an exhibit at the FUN or ANA?

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In memory of IGWT:

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Broadstruck
Errors, HTT's, SLQ's

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Wednesday November 05, 2008 2:06 PM

Reappearance of Proof $10 1844-O
by Harry Bass, 29 Nov 1994

Perhaps some will be interested in learning that one of the great rarities in U.S. gold coinage has reappeared after 83 years!

In 1844, the New Orleans mint struck at least one Presentation (Proof) specimen of both the $5 and $10 coins for that year.

A $5 example has been long since been located. It resides in a prominent collection (not mine).

A $10 example first appeared in the Parmalee Sale in 1890. What is believed to be the same coin subsequently appeared in the Woodin sale of 1911, where it appeared as one of the plated (photographed) coins.

The reappearance of this coin after a hiatus of so many years is most gratifying for any doubt as to its existence may now be dispelled.

That it is in fact the 1911 Woodin specimen is a certainty. The Woodin plates were actual photographs of remarkable resolution. All distinctive features evident on the surfaces of both the obverse and reverse of the coin can be seen in the respective photographs.

Coin to coin comparison of the specimen with all known die pairs/mulings used in 1844 at the New Orleans mint further reveals that the subject coin was struck from a die pair that was also used for the striking of business strike coins. This rules out any speculation that it may have been struck at other than the New Orleans mint.

Microscopic comparison of the specimen with a very nice business strike leads to the surmise that the Proof/Presentation strike was struck subsequent to the striking of the business strike. The surfaces of the specimen are clearly of Proof quality, being fully mirrored. The central figures have a "Cameo" appearance.

The occasion, if any, for the striking of the both the $5 and the $10 is not known to the writer.

Numismatics is a wonderful science! (And its fun, as well!)

Harry Bass

-------------------------
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!

~ TOTALLY NEW FRESHLY PICKED BST OFFERINGS MAJOR EYE CANDY... MORE GOODIES JUST ADDED! ~

In Memory of IGWT & SilverEagles92

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RYK
Dirty Gold Man

Posts: 29640
Joined: Jan 2003

Wednesday November 05, 2008 2:22 PM

I am going to do more research on this, but the reverse of the proof issue seem different from the circulation strike issues that I can find in the Heritage archives. This may lend some credence to RWB's theory that it was minted in Philly. Perhaps we can match it to the reverse of the Philly issues (I do not have time for this now) and declare that the coin was indeed struck in Philadelphia, perhaps even at a much later date.

-------------------------
In memory of IGWT:

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Coinosaurus
Master Collector

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Wednesday November 05, 2008 2:25 PM

RYK-

You would want to look at the 44-O $5 proof and see if that a different reverse too.

-------------------------
Liberty Seated Collector's Club, www.lsccweb.org

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RYK
Dirty Gold Man

Posts: 29640
Joined: Jan 2003

Wednesday November 05, 2008 2:28 PM

<< RYK-

You would want to look at the 44-O $5 proof and see if that a different reverse too. >>

I am surprised that someone who is into this stuff has not worked all this nonsense out. I am more of a macro guy, not a die variety type. I have said time and again, any coin that I need a loupe (or magnified image) to appreciate, is of little interest to me. No doubt if Harry Bass had owned the coin, he would have id'ed it.

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In memory of IGWT:

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Broadstruck
Errors, HTT's, SLQ's

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Wednesday November 05, 2008 2:40 PM

PARMALEE 1844-O PROOF EAGLE

The 1844-O $10 gold piece probably
made as a gift for someone of importance is listed
in the 100 Greatest U.S. Coins at No. 39.

Even though it was created 46 years earlier, not many
people knew the $10 gold coin existed until it was listed
in an auction book in 1890.

The coin belonged to Lorin Parmelee, who had one of the
largest collections of rare coins at the time.

In 1890, the coin sold at auction for $16. The $5 companion
piece sold for $9.50. This is the last known time that both
coins were together.

The $10 coin resurfaced in 1911, as part of the William
Woodin auction, and sold for $50.

Like its $5 companion piece, the $10 coin had disappeared
until recently.

-------------------------
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!

~ TOTALLY NEW FRESHLY PICKED BST OFFERINGS MAJOR EYE CANDY... MORE GOODIES JUST ADDED! ~

In Memory of IGWT & SilverEagles92

Edited: Wednesday November 05, 2008 at 2:40 PM by Broadstruck

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NHSBaseball
Expert Collector

Posts: 2617
Joined: Sep 2007

Wednesday November 05, 2008 3:22 PM

I have GOT to see this- back to the Big Easy for me.

If anyone on these boards is planning to check this coin out at the New Orleans mint anytime soon, PM me- I will treat you to a dozen on the halfshell at the ACME or a po-boy if raw oysters are not your thing.

I'm serious.

-------------------------
"College men from LSU- went in dumb, come out dumb too..."
-Randy Newman

Posts: 2097
Joined: May 2006

Wednesday November 05, 2008 3:30 PM

<< I am going to do more research on this, but the reverse of the proof issue seem different from the circulation strike issues that I can find in the Heritage archives. This may lend some credence to RWB's theory that it was minted in Philly. Perhaps we can match it to the reverse of the Philly issues (I do not have time for this now) and declare that the coin was indeed struck in Philadelphia, perhaps even at a much later date. >>

I'm going to assert that it looks like the same variety as this coin. It does not seem to be a common variety. I could not find any 1844-(P) coins that have the same high date position in the Heritage or Stack's archives. Really, I should see what Winter says in his book about 1844-O varieties.

-------------------------
--
Ed. S.
(EJS)

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RWB
Master Collector

Posts: 6888
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Wednesday November 05, 2008 3:36 PM

RYK�s suggestions seem prudent and reasonable. However much one would like to claim the New Orleans Mint struck some real mirrored proof coins in 1844, there is no known documentation establishing that.

The coins exist, but New Orleans did not have the mechanical means to make them. With Philadelphia proofs made and sold �off-the-books� any number of special specimens could have been made for order or speculative sale. While years of reading original mint documents has quelled much of my initial �conspiracy-itis� and �delicacies� ideas, the pre-1858 period remains potentially an open cesspool of self-dealing and insider trading. (Geeez�sounds like the mortgage derivative mess�)

As for the die linkages, I recommend that be completely revisited. John Dannreuther�s work on other early gold indicates that it might be best to wipe the slate clean and start over. From the photos, the dies look too good to have been used much.

The coins are worth what that are, but I suspect we do numismatics a disservice by simply accepting the �accepted wisdom� as definitive.

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Joined: Jun 2005

Wednesday November 05, 2008 4:03 PM

stunning piece and interesting story/post.

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