1976 "No S" Eisenhower Dollar~~ Does this really exist???

eCoinquest · July 27, 2007 10:18AM

1976 "No S" Eisenhower Dollar~~ Does this really exist??? I have heard of them but never seen one. Anyone have any info on this??
eCoinquest

MrEureka · July 27, 2007 10:20AM

The T2 definitely exists, and I owned it many years ago. The T1 is also supposed to exist but I've never seen one.

cladking · July 27, 2007 10:45AM

A board member here owns it.

wondercoin · July 28, 2007 3:59AM

I now own what used to be Andy's coin and I do believe it is possibly Unique after the US Mint reports melting -2- other coins. It is the pride and joy of my modern coin collection. PCGS has trueview scans of the coin and perhaps the coin can be discussed by Jamie Hernandez in a future Rare Coin Market Report.

Wondercoin

BECOKA · July 28, 2007 4:05AM

<< I now own what used to be Andy's coin and I do believe it is possibly Unique after the US Mint reports melting -2- other coins. It is the pride and joy of my modern coin collection. PCGS has trueview scans of the coin and perhaps the coin can be discussed by Jamie Hernandez in a future Rare Coin Market Report.

Wondercoin >>

Mitch, do you have the trueview pics to post?

wondercoin · July 28, 2007 4:10AM

I do somewhere. But, I'll see if I can get them again from PCGS on Monday as I am out the door now for the day.

Wondercoin

CaptHenway · July 28, 2007 6:33AM

<< The T2 definitely exists, and I owned it many years ago. The T1 is also supposed to exist but I've never seen one. >>

Andy....when I got that piece in at Coin World, I called it lightly circ. from being in a cash register. How did you grade it?
TD

MrEureka · July 28, 2007 6:34AM

Andy....when I got that piece in at Coin World, I called it lightly circ. from being in a cash register. How did you grade it?

When I bought it from the Devonshire auction? Barely choice proof. Today, it looks fine in a 65 holder.

fc · July 28, 2007 6:38AM

does anyone have a link to the story behind these T1 and T2 coins?

MrEureka · July 28, 2007 6:41AM

The T1 was apparently given to VIPs as part of a three piece set, including the quarter and Half. Capt H will fill us in on the details, I'm sure.

There is no story about the production of the T2, only the unlikely story about its discovery in an ashtray. Yeah, right. BTW, the T2 is silver, unlike the S-Mint T2s.

eCoinquest · July 28, 2007 9:16AM

I wish I had one of those.

CaptHenway · July 28, 2007 11:59AM

<< The T1 was apparently given to VIPs as part of a three piece set, including the quarter and Half. Capt H will fill us in on the details, I'm sure.

There is no story about the production of the T2, only the unlikely story about its discovery in an ashtray. Yeah, right. BTW, the T2 is silver, unlike the S-Mint T2s. >>

It wasn't an ashtray. The person who sent it to Coin World in May of 1978 (see June 7, 1978 issue, p. 21) said that he got it out of a cash register at the Woodward and Lothrup department store in Washington, D.C. in mid-1977.

I have never heard a good explanation as to when or why this piece was made.

TD

wondercoin · July 29, 2007 2:12AM

When I bought it from the Devonshire auction? Barely choice proof. Today, it looks fine in a 65 holder.

Andy - PCGS graded the coin PR66CAM a few years back, not that it matters and applied the pattern # as well to the coin as I recall. You might want to let BJ know that the coin needs to be added to the various pattern Registry sets you assisted with the creation of?

Wondercoin

MrEureka · July 29, 2007 2:14AM

You might want to let BJ know that the coin needs to be added to the various pattern Registry sets you assisted with the creation of?

Will do.

MrEureka · July 29, 2007 2:16AM

BTW, the original US Mint sales literature for the 3 piece Bicentennial set pictured all three denominations of no-S proofs!

segoja · July 29, 2007 2:24AM

I thought the coin Mitch had was Clad, not silver!

I saw one of the Type II No S Ikes a few years ago. Hager had sold it to a customer in Wiscoinsin. That coin was clad not silver.

I graded is PR63 at best, but I think it's the same coin Mitch has.

In any case it is a super cool Ike, and I hope Mitch sells it to me when he's done with it!!!

wondercoin · July 29, 2007 2:36AM

James: I am not sure where the confusion comes from - you had mentioned that low grade No S Ike in the past - but, I doubt it is the coin I have, as I grade this piece around PR67DCAM+ (it is in a PR66CAM holder). On the other hand, you have always been tough on the grading of Proof Ikes, so who knows. Perhaps next time you come in for a Long Beach show, we can get together at the bank here in Orange County and you can see my PCGS graded piece.

Wondercoin

StampAlarm · July 29, 2007 2:49AM

<< You might want to let BJ know that the coin needs to be added to the various pattern Registry sets you assisted with the creation of?

Will do. >>

I say this with complete ignorance on what goes on with the Set Registry Program:

But, I would hate to be competing in the category that this Ike gets listed in. Kinda like game over.

Jerry

MrEureka · July 29, 2007 3:04AM

I saw one of the Type II No S Ikes a few years ago. Hager had sold it to a customer in Wiscoinsin. That coin was clad not silver.

Assuming it's the same coin, which is very likely, it's 40% silver. It would be easy to mistake it for clad.

MrEureka · July 29, 2007 3:06AM

But, I would hate to be competing in the category that this Ike gets listed in. Kinda like game over.

There are many other unique and R-8 patterns in the pattern dollar series. Nobody's going to complete the set, and no one coin will lock you into first place.

Pistareen · July 29, 2007 3:11AM

I catalogued this coin for B+M back in September 2002.

To my mind, despite its age (y'all know I'm more down with 1776 than 1976), it's a classic rarity and a fascinating true pattern -- not a hokie struck-for-collector thing, but a genuine trial piece.

When it was sold in 2002, it was the world-record Ike dollar, selling for far beyond what any other Ike had ever sold for. Does anyone know if this still is the case? In the year previous I'd gotten to catalogue world-record setting SBAs and Sacs too, both error coins, so I was pretty pleased to be the cataloguer of the trifecta of top modern dollars!

(Don't tell any of the modern bashers I was proud of this, please ... it might ruin my colonial coin cred.)

Here's a photo, courtest of uspatterns.com:

wondercoin · July 29, 2007 3:24AM

Pistareen - On the MS side of things for regular issue Ikes a PCGS-MS66 Ty 2 I believe sold for around $17,000 while, on the proof side of things the top price I am aware of for a pop 1, Ty1, 1976(s) Proof Ike is $18,000 plus the juice at auction just recently. When the pattern Ike sold (5) years ago at auction for nearly 2x that amount, the most expensive regular issue proof Ike had not sold for anything close to that recently achieved price. Interestingly, if I am not mistaken, B&M also classified the pattern Ike in the Mint error section of their 2002 catalog -something I was happy to see as a bidder as it may have "taken a little heat off" the bidding.

Wondercoin

RWB · July 29, 2007 3:29AM

What happened to the companion half and quarter?

MrEureka · July 29, 2007 3:38AM

What happened to the companion half and quarter?

There are no companions for the T2. Only for the T1, but none of those three coins are known with certainty to exist.

Remember, the T1 is the 1975 issue, which is when all the 3-piece sets were sold.

cladking · July 29, 2007 3:58AM

<< What happened to the companion half and quarter? >>

These were repotedly destroyed but all the Ikes were, I believe, also reportedly destroyed.

These sets were made in Philly for mint promotional purposes. The regular sets weren't ready
so these were made special.

wondercoin · July 29, 2007 7:27AM

CK: I believe the 6th edition of the Judd book has a nice write up on the (unique) Ike- check it out. In summary, the editors of that edition were disappointed that the US Mint destroyed the other (2) examples and did not, instead, send them to the Smithsonian.

Wondercoin

CaptHenway · July 29, 2007 11:53PM

<< Pistareen - On the MS side of things for regular issue Ikes a PCGS-MS66 Ty 2 I believe sold for around $17,000 while, on the proof side of things the top price I am aware of for a pop 1, Ty1, 1976(s) Proof Ike is $18,000 plus the juice at auction just recently. When the pattern Ike sold (5) years ago at auction for nearly 2x that amount, the most expensive regular issue proof Ike had not sold for anything close to that recently achieved price. Interestingly, if I am not mistaken, B&M also classified the pattern Ike in the Mint error section of their 2002 catalog -something I was happy to see as a bidder as it may have "taken a little heat off" the bidding.

Wondercoin >>

Excuse me.....are you saying that a "TYPE ONE" Proof 1976 No S 40% silver dollar sold recently?
Advise and thanks.
TD

Gandyjai · July 30, 2007 12:20AM

<< The T1 was apparently given to VIPs as part of a three piece set, including the quarter and Half. Capt H will fill us in on the details, I'm sure.

There is no story about the production of the T2, only the unlikely story about its discovery in an ashtray. Yeah, right. BTW, the T2 is silver, unlike the S-Mint T2s. >>

I had heard about presentation pieces being given to political VIP's.....I was wondering if those were the "No S" ones?
Or......could the 76-S Ike with the 180 degree rotated die that is listed in the Major Rotated Die Census be one of those presentation pieces?

Brian

I Love

Variety & Error Ikes!

wondercoin · July 30, 2007 1:37AM

Capt - As I mentioned, the $18,000 plus the juice sale was for a 1976(s) Ty 1 proof coin -not a no-S coin.

Wondercoin

CaptHenway · July 30, 2007 1:56AM

<< Capt - As I mentioned, the $18,000 plus the juice sale was for a 1976(s) Ty 1 proof coin -not a no-S coin.

Wondercoin >>

Sorry. I thought that by putting the (s) in parentheses like that you meant that the S was not present.
TD

ModernDollarNut · July 30, 2007 2:07AM

<< I catalogued this coin for B+M back in September 2002.

To my mind, despite its age (y'all know I'm more down with 1776 than 1976), it's a classic rarity and a fascinating true pattern -- not a hokie struck-for-collector thing, but a genuine trial piece.

When it was sold in 2002, it was the world-record Ike dollar, selling for far beyond what any other Ike had ever sold for. Does anyone know if this still is the case? In the year previous I'd gotten to catalogue world-record setting SBAs and Sacs too, both error coins, so I was pretty pleased to be the cataloguer of the trifecta of top modern dollars!

(Don't tell any of the modern bashers I was proud of this, please ... it might ruin my colonial coin cred.)

Here's a photo, courtest of uspatterns.com:

>>

ModernDollarNut · July 30, 2007 2:18AM

OOPs, sorry.... finger twitched too soon

It's interesting that the photo of the set of three no-S Silver Proof coins - including the T1 Ike - that the mint displayed and gave out for publication in early 1975 shows all three no cameo contrast on their letters/numbers on either side! (COINage Februaru, 1975.

To me they look stunning, especially the reverse of the Ike on which the broad flat letters seem to shimmer and float.

The picture above of the T2 no-S Ike Proof seems to have cameo contrast as per usual.

So the T1 no-S Proof Ike is indeed unique: has any US Mint ever produced a Proof with frosty cameo only on the central devices?

Curiously, the picture of the T1 no-S Proof in the original edition of Judd shows a T2 with normal frosting, somebody's goof. Rob

CaptHenway · July 30, 2007 3:06AM

<< OOPs, sorry.... finger twitched too soon

It's interesting that the photo of the set of three no-S Silver Proof coins - including the T1 Ike - that the mint displayed and gave out for publication in early 1975 shows all three no cameo contrast on their letters/numbers on either side! (COINage Februaru, 1975.

To me they look stunning, especially the reverse of the Ike on which the broad flat letters seem to shimmer and float.

The picture above of the T2 no-S Ike Proof seems to have cameo contrast as per usual.

So the T1 no-S Proof Ike is indeed unique: has any US Mint ever produced a Proof with frosty cameo only on the central devices?

Curiously, the picture of the T1 no-S Proof in the original edition of Judd shows a T2 with normal frosting, somebody's goof. Rob >>

There are no T1 no-S Proof Ikes known.
TD

wondercoin · July 30, 2007 8:57AM

"So the T1 no-S Proof Ike is indeed unique"

You mean the T2?

Wondercoin

eCoinquest · July 30, 2007 9:22AM

Interesting......
Wondercoin>> Do you have a photo of your coin??? I would like to see it.
Thanks

wondercoin · July 30, 2007 9:37AM

Cert Verification #: 22068362
Date, mintmark: 1976
Denomination: $1
Variety: Var 2-Silv
Pedigree:
Country: The United States of America
Grade: PR66

Wondercoin

wondercoin · July 30, 2007 9:49AM

The coin has been untouched since its appearance in the 2002 B&M auction (and I have no intention of "conserving" the coin). As I mentioned, I comfortably grade the piece PR67DCAM+ under todays' standards, but it really doesn't matter obviously. Thanks for asking about it eCoinquest. I have the true view photos here to look at it, but, may try to get out to the bank to visit it again soon.

Wondercoin

eCoinquest · July 30, 2007 9:52AM

Wondercoin>>> That is one nice coin... Thank you for sharing photos of your historic rarity.
It's not everyday that you get to see a true modern rarity.
Thanks...

eCoinquest · July 30, 2007 9:53AM

And thank you to all the board members that have shared their knowledge of this amazing coin....
eCoinquest

wondercoin · July 30, 2007 9:57AM

Regarding unique 20th Century US Mint coins intended to be produced (i.e. non-errors but including patterns) - are there any other coins other than (possibly) this Ike and a SLQ unique pattern piece out there? A merc Dime and Walker pattern perhaps? Just curious? Wondercoin

ProofArtworkonCircs · July 30, 2007 1:55PM

According to the Judd book on Pattern Coins, only one medium relief 1922 dollar exists.
According to Breen only one 1977 - D silver clad quarter is known.
And I forget who mententioned it (Breen?) there is one 1976 - S type 2 silver clad in existence.

wondercoin · July 30, 2007 3:02PM

intersting on he 1922 dollar - the 77(d) quarter and 76(s) Ike would be errors though?

Wondercoin

ProofArtworkonCircs · July 30, 2007 3:09PM

Correct - the 1977 D quarter and 1976 S Ike would be errors.
Sorry, I didn't have your exact question in front of me when I wrote the last reply.

eCoinquest · August 1, 2007 10:08AM

Wondercoin--> In answer to your question about unique 20th century varieties, I know of one coin that is unique but it is considered an error and is of the 21st century.
The coin is my 2006 D PCGS MS65 Experimental Rinse Sac Dollar.
This coin is recognized by PCGS as a "Mint Error" and as far as I know is a "pop 1" coin.
I would consider it a "Mint Trial Piece" as The Mint probably made it as a trial of different finishes to stop tarnishing.
eCoinquest

wondercoin · August 1, 2007 10:26AM

ECoinquest - Nice coin, but I excluded errors in my question, as there are myriad "one of a kind" errors. I was curious if there were any other intended for production unique US Mint coins from the 20th Century?

Wondercoin

MrEureka · August 1, 2007 10:32AM

At least one of the pattern Walkers is unique. So is the 1906 Barber $20. And there are probably some unique 1909 pattern nickels at the Smithsonian. And I'm sure there are others...

Edited to say the unique Walker is (since 2004) no longer the only one known.

wondercoin · August 1, 2007 10:36AM

Thanks Andy. I am considering an article on 20th century unique coins and your comments were very helpful.

By the way, no unique classic Silver Commems?

Wondercoin

MrEureka · August 1, 2007 10:39AM

Here's a unique pattern Standing Quarter, J-1989.

The unique former Jimmy Hayes coin. This piece is misdescribed in both Judd and Pollock. It is not the regular dies before the designer's initial 'M' was added. This used to be J1795 in earlier editions of Judd.

It is struck from completely different dies. On this piece, the olive branch in Liberty's hand is slightly different from the one used on the regular issue. According to Stacks' Hayes sale catalog, this piece has actually had 2 leaves scratched off the coin.

Stacks mentions that the coin apparently is the one mentioned in an October 22, 1916 letter addressed to A.M. Joyce, Superintendent of the U.S. Mint which is excerpted below.

"I am returning to you herewith two of the four sample quarters you sent me, one being blank on one side with the reverse design on the other, and the other being your number 4, as submitted in your letter of October 20th."

"With one slight alteration, the design as it appears on No. 4 is acceptable. The slight alteration referred to is the elimination of the two leaves in the angle of the letter "L" in the word 'Liberty'. You will notice that I have scratched these two leaves off the coin I am returning to you. With this slight change you may go ahead and make up the dies for the finished coin. I have kept here No. 2 and No. 3, which you can charge to me."

It is not known if the other 3 coins mentioned still survive. The complete pedigree on the illustrated piece is Ex: William Mc Adoo Estate, Lester Merkin, Jimmy Hayes, Hayes Sale (Stack's, 10/85), Jay Cline, Superior 10/90 (not sold), Heritage 1/04.

MrEureka · August 1, 2007 10:41AM

By the way, no unique classic Silver Commems?

If you include proofs, die trials and splashers, there are plenty.

MrEureka · August 1, 2007 10:42AM

Here's a related question to ponder:

Are we sure that the 1975 no "S" proof dimes are clad?

CaptHenway · August 1, 2007 2:39PM

<< Here's a related question to ponder:

Are we sure that the 1975 no "S" proof dimes are clad? >>

Yes. I saw the discovery piece at Coin World, which the owner had removed from the plastic case. Normal copper core.
TD

1976 "No S" Eisenhower Dollar~~ Does this really exist???

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1976 &quot;No S&quot; Eisenhower Dollar~~ Does this really exist???

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1976 "No S" Eisenhower Dollar~~ Does this really exist???