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Three Dollar Gold Piece Raw

skier07skier07 Posts: 4,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
My dad bought this coin for me in the 1970's. The coin has been stored in a plastic holder in a safe
deposit box up until now. I'm having a difficult time grading this coin. I find gold coins in general to
be very difficult to grade.

image

image

These are also my first photos using a tripod. Comments on coin and photo are
greatly appreciated.

Bruce

Comments

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry to tell you this but this date is very heavily counterfeited and this is one of them. Looks like one of the omega-man counterfeits. Check out the top loop of the R in LIBERTY. You should see a tiny Greek letter omega (horseshoe shape). This guy liked to sign his work.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ow. An Omega? Well, that sucks, but at least if you're gonna have a counterfeit, it's better to have one of the nicer, name-brand, top-of-the-line counterfeits.

    Here is a Wikipedia stub on the Omega Man.

    The PCGS guide has closeup pictures of these. The omega letter on them must really be microscopically tiny- I have never seen one.

    If what PerryHall says is true, that's sad news for you, but I think Omega counterfeits are still worth a little in their own right.

    I suppose their bullion weight is correct, too, then? At least it would be real gold.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Omega Man fakes have full gold content. He also made a lot of high relief Saints.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • CoinHuskerCoinHusker Posts: 5,033 ✭✭✭
    Any one have any up close pics of the "Omega"?
    Collecting coins, medals and currency featuring "The Sower"
  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,148 ✭✭✭✭
    This is the reason I only purchase classic gold in PCGS slabs image

    Stinks for you in truely counterfeit image
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry to tell you this but this date is very heavily counterfeited and this is one of them.

    while this statement may turn out to be fact, i'd suggest that you get an "in hand" opinion from an expert, perhaps considering encapsulation from either PCGS/NGC/ANACS to be sure whether the coin is genuine. grading can be difficult from an online picture so i thinkl it's safe to assume that counterfiet detection is just as unreliable from an online picture, especially when you realize that the perpetrator of the Omega counterfiets was one of the best and fooled many.

    get an experts opinion in hand on this.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,552 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    image
    photos courtesy of PCGS
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keets is right.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    skier07---Before you waste your money on trying to get it slabbed, take it to a major show and show it to a few dealers that carry a lot of gold and get their opinion. The side by side pics (thanks Keets) don't even look the same (check the lettering especially and the luster) so don't get your hopes up.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,694 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sorry to tell you this but this date is very heavily counterfeited and this is one of them.

    while this statement may turn out to be fact, i'd suggest that you get an "in hand" opinion from an expert, perhaps considering encapsulation from either PCGS/NGC/ANACS to be sure whether the coin is genuine. grading can be difficult from an online picture so i thinkl it's safe to assume that counterfiet detection is just as unreliable from an online picture, especially when you realize that the perpetrator of the Omega counterfiets was one of the best and fooled many.

    get an experts opinion in hand on this. >>



    Your advice is good, but as an expert on the subject I can say with absolute authority that that piece is an Omega counterfeit. The shapes of the letters on the obverse legend are distinctively bad.
    Tom DeLorey
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tom beat me to it,
    but the coin, based on
    the scans, is N.G., IMO

    In addition to his specific points,
    the color and surfaces are wrong,
    the strike is incorrect, and you can
    see a casting mark in the center
    between the wreaths, above the "3"


    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>In addition to his specific points,
    the color and surfaces are wrong,
    the strike is incorrect, and you can
    see a casting mark in the center
    between the wreaths, above the "3" >>

    When you refer to the "casting mark," do you mean the bump (a likely flaw in the die, similar to a repeating depression, and thus a diagnostic of a fake) above the numeral 3?

    Just trying to learn here...
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, that's exactly what I mean........

    There's a new book out by Bill Fivaz
    on Counterfiet U.S. Gold.....I strongly
    recommend it for anyone who buys
    gold coins of any country........

    "Lonesome" John Devine wrote a
    similar book back in Nov. 1975 that
    also contained info on cast counterfiets,
    EDM dies, etc.....you see the book on
    occassion on Ebay - for $5-$10, it's a
    great reference book too....

    But Bill's new book is in full color, with
    tons of details photos, great info, etc.


    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    what struck me as obvious with the comparison pictures is the thickness of the lettering in the OP's coin, but i assumed it could be a result of the lighting. comparative pictures are helpful but there are too many variables involved to be conclusive, though they do tend to lend credence to the suspicion.

    please keep in mind that i don't pretend to have any knowledge regarding this series or these counterfiets, nor did i mean to suggest that others were wrong, i just think over-reliance on picturescan be a mistake and an expert opinion of the coin in hand is a more certain way to sort things out, and thus, more fair to the new guy.
  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,148 ✭✭✭✭
    A very informative thread to say the least.....
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • skier07skier07 Posts: 4,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the feedback. I don't have a microscope, but with a loupe I can see a break in the R on liberty.
    I can't tell if it says Omega or not. Fortunately for me this is the only nonslabbed "gold " piece I own.
    The coin in hand has a funny look to me, which also doen't bode well for it. Is there anyway I can tell
    if the "coin " is actually gold or it's a plated coin. I certainly won't submit this to PCGS but at the next
    Long Beach show I'll have a few dealers take a look at it.

    I have no idea how much my dad paid for the coin or if the dealer even knew the coin was a fake.
    But I doubt he paid any more than $150 for it. Still it sucks to be conned.

    Bruce
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bruce,

    I'll be happy to take a look at it at
    the February Long Beach Show....
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • mcheathmcheath Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭
    Does anyone have an idea of the value of an omega like this one? I saw that the high relief saints can bring over $1000 but im curious if anyone collects these at a premium over melt.
  • 66Tbird66Tbird Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭


    << <i> Ow. An Omega? Well, that sucks, but at least if you're gonna have a counterfeit, it's better to have one of the nicer, name-brand, top-of-the-line counterfeits. >>



    So true, and a great thread
    Need something designed and 3D printed?
  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,148 ✭✭✭✭
    If these are of the proper gold content what is this thing worth, about $90 in gold?

    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,694 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Does anyone have an idea of the value of an omega like this one? I saw that the high relief saints can bring over $1000 but im curious if anyone collects these at a premium over melt. >>



    Put it in a gold bezel and give it to your wife to wear.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • clw54clw54 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭
    Some of the grading services at Long Beach will look at it as well and give an expert opinion.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,797 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Some of the grading services at Long Beach will look at it as well and give an expert opinion. >>



    You can get free opinions from grading services at shows? I thought ANACS was the only one that did this and that they stopped doing it.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • clw54clw54 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Some of the grading services at Long Beach will look at it as well and give an expert opinion. >>



    You can get free opinions from grading services at shows? I thought ANACS was the only one that did this and that they stopped doing it. >>


    That could be. I hadn't asked them to look at anything for a while. I've seen ICG give opinions to people, too.

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