Please! No picture or video taking at Baltimore next week

BaltimoreCoinConv · July 9, 2006 10:58AM

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but when you walk in the door at Baltimore you will see a large poster stating that there is no picture taking or video recording allowed inside the show without the express permisssion of the managment.

This is a security issue and many of the dealers are very sensitive about having unauthorized pictures taken of them, only to be found published later on. This actually happened last March in Baltimore and the pictures ended up on this forum. And I sure heard about it the next day from some very disgruntled dealers.

Please consider that many of the dealers who attend Baltimore and other coin shows across the country, travel with very large and expensive inventories, and have to take every precaution from being mugged, robbed or even murdered while traveling. If you think things like this do not happen you are living in a dream world.

While the Baltimore Coin and Currency Convention does invite local television newsteams, and local newspapers to come and take pictures or video footage of our show for their publications or newscasts, we make sure that each cameraman is told that before they take any close-up and personal pitures of any particular dealer they need to ask permission from that dealer. We also announce that "WBAL" or other local T.V. stations are in the room taking footage, and we also announce to all the dealers that if they object to being on camera for the nightly news to please just step aside.

Most dealers do not object to this great free publicity (just ask Julian - Heh) and often times dealers will give some great interviews (as Julian has done many times), and show expenive coins, that help bring new folks to our show for business or to learn more about the hobby. But many other dealers do object and we respect their rights of privacy and security and respectively request picture cameras and video devices, including cellphones, not be used inside the bourse area at the Baltimore Coin and Currency Convention.

If you do have a legitmate purpose, such as doing an approved on-site video interview, or general pictures, with some of the dealers or important guests who regularly attend Baltimore, please get permission from show management first. We will be happy to allow you to use a section of the bourse area that is more conducive to the security and safety of all of our dealers. Thank you very much for your consideration. Ed Kuszmar

ABC123 · July 9, 2006 11:06AM

Most Casino's don't allow video equipment either ?

jhar · July 9, 2006 11:11AM

I can imagine theives taking advantage of such photos to know who to hit.

xphobe · July 9, 2006 11:12AM

My cell phone can take videos; these things are everywhere. What will happen 10 years from now? Our YMCA prohibits picture taking in the gym, but when technology gets to the point where it's in your glasses or a button, who can control it? Our children's generation is going to have very different ideas about privacy than we do.

FullStrike · July 9, 2006 11:18AM

?????

I always thought those robberies were set up by Dealers with solid crap inventories. No way to stop inside job insurance scams.

Russ · July 9, 2006 11:23AM

I heard that the rubber chicken was one of those who complained. I told Marty he should get permission from the little guy.

Russ, NCNE

Tootawl · July 9, 2006 12:00PM

Too bad you can't photos of your friends anymore.

CarlWohlforth · July 9, 2006 12:04PM

There are video cameras everywhere. Most phones can take photos and many can take videos. Your rules and the sensitivities of the dealers can not last long in the face of technology and increased security. That's right, those dealers are probably already in more videos than they can imagine. Stop your silly rules now or give it up later, I don't care.

oreville · July 9, 2006 12:21PM

Ed Kuszmar: Thanks for your honesty in not blaming "911" for the reason you are prohibiting photographs.

May I suggest an "open wall area" in which photographs are not only permitted by also encouraged?

See you on Friday!

BaltimoreCoinConv · July 9, 2006 12:26PM

I have always said about this forum that if you put a message out saying the moon was made of green cheese, that 45% of the responses would agree, 45% of the responses would disagree,
and the other 10% would respond that is was half green cheese
and half limburger cheese. The last two response fit in the 10%.

I will be happy to set up a nice blue curtained background in an
area of the room where folks can go and take pictures and it doesn't
jeapordize or offend others in the room. Just say the word.
Ed Kuszmar

BaltimoreCoinConv · July 9, 2006 12:27PM

Oreville, you snuck a message in on me. my comments were not about your message. Ed

BaltimoreCoinConv · July 9, 2006 12:34PM

I'll go one step further. I have a meeting room available most of the day on Friday, and possibly from 4-5 p.m. on Saturday. If there is any interest I would be happy to let CU forum members use it to meet one and other, and you are welcome to take all the pictures
you care to. It's too late to get anything in the Convention Program for the July Convention, but our November Convention will be our largest Baltimore Convention ever held, and we expect to fill up all the new expansion table space in Hall C, and I would be happy to schedule a meeting room for CU forum members to use. Ed

oreville · July 9, 2006 12:36PM

Ed: Heh, heh. You may want to "tout" your new photographing area at the bottom of your poster so no one has to "ask."

i only wish I can get there by 10am when I have a 4 1/2 hour drive each way!

BaltimoreCoinConv · July 9, 2006 12:40PM

Nor were my comments directed at Tootawl.

RBinTex · July 9, 2006 12:40PM

Lemme guess. Laura spoiled it for everybody

BaltimoreCoinConv · July 9, 2006 12:42PM

Or Russ. You guys are fast with the messages tonight.

MadMarty · July 9, 2006 12:44PM

Looks like the rubber chicken won't be going to Baltimore!!

Russ · July 9, 2006 12:44PM

<< I have always said about this forum that if you put a message out saying the moon was made of green cheese >>

It's made of white cheese, (Swiss). Anybody with half a brain knows that.

Russ, NCNE

oreville · July 9, 2006 12:45PM

Ed: Don't forget to raise the curtain an extra foot.

Tootawl will need it!

Tootawl · July 9, 2006 12:47PM

<< Nor were my comments directed at Tootawl. >>

I was wondering what I said that was so bad.

CarlWohlforth · July 9, 2006 12:47PM

At least Fred Weinberg and Laura Sperber are willing to be on video. They were on TV. The show was mentioned here in a recent thread. Publicity helps the coin biz.

I see video cameras everywhere I go. They are watching me on the highways, in stores and airports. Even coin dealers can't get away from them. Why fight it?

I think Ed K. is trying to keep everybody happy. That is a tough job. I think you are trying hard Ed. However I will photograph whoever and whatever I want. Since it will look like I'm talking on my phone I don't think you or anybody else can stop me.

Any dealer who thinks they can avoid getting photographed at the upcoming show is kidding themselves.

PhillyJoe · July 9, 2006 1:02PM

While I will have my camera with me, I will respect the host's wishes. Thank you for the offer of the alternate area.

Joe

BaltimoreCoinConv · July 9, 2006 1:11PM

Yes it is a tough job to keep everyone happy. Especially where you
have a lot of very varied personalities involved, and some of those
personalities are arrogant, rude and very vocal. Should I ignore
those dealers (my customers who pay the entire cost of running the
show) worried about their security because some dipdorf feels they have to blatently break the rules of a sign posted at the door, or
should I simply have the offender escorted out of the building with
promises of being arrested if they ever step foot in the facility again?
How say ye? Ed

Tootawl · July 9, 2006 1:15PM

If the offender is female, single, cute, & tawl, I'll be glad to have a talk with her for you.

Longacre · July 9, 2006 1:16PM

Why do people feel the need to take pictures at coin shows? The thought never occurred to me. However, if someone could snap a pic of QDB and me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Bochiman · July 9, 2006 1:29PM

I actually think the thieves, if they wanted to know who to hit, wouldn't need the photos but would just go there as a customer and scout things out.

Ed....I applaud you for caring enough about everyone to do what you can to help all sides (some dealers don't want pictures and that is fine, though, I wonder if it is all about safety or some of them just don't want to be pictured on this forum with any "stories"

). Truth be told, I don't like my picture taken much either, but that's just because it will break the cameras and I don't want to have to replace them

You are also setting up for collectors to still be able to take pics, just in approved spots. Very supportive.

All in all though, while I can appreciate the safety concerns, if someone wants to take a pic, they will be able to and you won't be able to really tell (want to tell everyone that cellphones are completely prohibited on the show floor?). This is more like one of those types of rules that harass the rule-abiders and won't stop the rule breakers.

If someone does take a picture, will you confiscate their camera and "film"/memory card? Or, just ask them to leave? Maybe it is a high spender and kicking them out will cost some dealers some money.....?

Anyway, not a complaint as I won't be traveling cross country for the show so it won't impact me.

Good luck

Compa · July 9, 2006 1:29PM

Banning photography is a bit extreme (I'm a photographer). It is a private space and you do have the right. But ... try offering masks to the dealers for them to wear. No one will recognize them with a mask on

You can't beat it ... if someone wants to take a photo they can. With today's cell phone cameras there is no longer any practical way to avoid it.

CarlWohlforth · July 9, 2006 1:47PM

Ed, did you just call me "dipdorf"?

stman · July 9, 2006 1:59PM

<< Why do people feel the need to take pictures at coin shows? >>

Always puzzled me as well. The "memories" of the nice people, faces, and the "goings on" have always been fresh in my mind just like a picture.
Now sometimes I might wish I could un-see those memories though.

And Carl.... is that you typing what you're typing?

BaltimoreCoinConv · July 9, 2006 2:04PM

Are my dealers safer if the no picture rule is in effect or without it?
Are my guests safer? Let's not forget that there will be thousands
of COLLECTORS and INVESTORS in the room too. If you as a collector was carrying a ton of value with you would you think it perfectly all right for 30 or 40 people to take your picture? How
about when you are doing business, either buying or selling, at
the show. Do you want someone standing over your shoulder
video taping every transaction you do and then following you
out of the show to take pictures of your license plate? Well?

I personally think that allowing just anyone off the street to
come into the show and have a free range of taking pictures
of anyone and anything they want is a horrible breach of
security, and leaves show management wide open for legal problems.

I only hope that everyone understands the position of the dealers
who do not like to have their pictures taken, and our position of
trying to offer as much protection for both dealers and collectors
when they are doing business, to please abide by the no picture
rule. I have suggested, and others have agreed, that having an
area in the show where consenting folks can take pictures of each
other (boy will I get some comments on that statement) is a good
idea, and I already know exactly where to put it. It shall be done.

Thanks for everyone's comments. I leave for Baltimore in the a.m.
See ya. Ed Kuszmar

TwoSides2aCoin · July 9, 2006 2:09PM

I'll abide by the rules unless there's a wet T shirt contest............... In which case, I'll bring a distress bag.
I've seen some of you people's pictures

........ and pictures of some of your coins

WTCG · July 9, 2006 2:33PM

Even if you disagree with the rules that Ed Kusmar/ Baltimore Coin and Currency Convention have established with respect to photography, anybody who is planning to attend that show should respect and observe the house rules.

Do not attend the Baltimore Convention or you can start your own show in direct competition armed with your own rules if you do not wish to respect the policies that have been established.

Tarmac · July 9, 2006 3:01PM

I actually think the thieves, if they wanted to know who to hit, wouldn't need the photos but would just go there as a customer and scout things out.

I also agree with the poster who said thanks for not pinning this "security" issue on 911.

If a dealer is a major player they ship their coins with security. If they are a wannabe they cannot afford security or are too cheap to spring for it. If a "pro" wants to hit a dealer do you really think not filming/photographing will stop them? Jewelery stores get hit all the time but no one is filming inside.

Major coin heists are INSIDE jobs. Someone who KNOWS or KNOWS OF the person/company they want to rip off.

Ask any detective [not a beat cop] and they will confirm those you must be wary of are those closest to you along with their associates.

I abide by the rules but hate to see these myths perpetuated. The stranger in a trench coat who knows nothing about coins will not walk into the show and magically ripoff the "dirty" AU-MS Flowing Hair Dollars in the show case. Someone who KNOWS the habits of the dealer and his vulnerabilities will set up that dealer. But most savvy dealers already know this and take the necessary precautions.

BTW, sounds like a well organized and fun show. One day I will make it there.

Coxe · July 9, 2006 3:40PM

I'd be a lot more worried about photographing select bidders on an auction floor and jacking them up after lot pickup.

291fifth · July 9, 2006 7:04PM

If professional theives want to get pictures, they will. The dealer's real concern should be for having professional security (and they won't be paid minimum wage) actively working to spot potential theives and gather information on them while the show is in progress.

(This is a general comment on coin shows. I have no idea what security this show actually has.)

GOLDSAINT · July 9, 2006 8:17PM

It would appear that the best policy might be to change many of the security rules at all coin shows, or perhaps cancel these shows altogether.

There were of course no robberies or thefts of coins before there were video cameras, tiny digital cameras, cell phones, picture taking Ipods etc.

What if there are people going to these shows with photographic memories? Everyone should be questioned at the door.

If these shows must go on then no one should be allowed paper and pen to copy down license plates, or any other information.

No dealers should have stacks of business cards on their tables, many with their pictures, names, addresses, and websites.

Naturally no dealer signs with names, addresses, websites, etc. should be allowed on any table.

No one should ever give out a business card with a website containing their inventory, pictures of themselves, or coins.

All dealers, as well as customers should wear fake beards, sunglasses, and hats. In addition all buyers should use cash only so no record of their address or other personal information would be disclosed.

In addition no price guides should be allowed in the shows, so that people would not know how much any coins were really worth.

Lastly, did you know you could get a sample of someone’s DNA by just shaking hands?

Michigan · July 9, 2006 8:43PM

Sounds like it would be next to impossible to enforce, you would have to ban cell phones which often have a picture taking
capability these days. Ban cell phones at coin shows?, I don't think that would be well received. I can understand dealers not
wanting their picture taken but for a professional thief wanting to do so it would be a losing battle trying to stop them. A thief
could be pretending to be talking on the phone and take a quick picture without anyone realizing it.

Coxe · July 9, 2006 9:08PM

Yes, people could take cell phone photos. There are practical limits of enforceability of this sort of rule. However, since this stems from posting here, we should respect the participants' wishes with regard to their photos/videos here and only post what is OK'ed by all shown. Seems reasonable.

PerryHall · July 9, 2006 9:10PM

<< Sounds like it would be next to impossible to enforce, you would have to ban cell phones which often have a picture taking
capability these days. Ban cell phones at coin shows?, I don't think that would be well received. I can understand dealers not
wanting their picture taken but for a professional thief wanting to do so it would be a losing battle trying to stop them. A thief
could be pretending to be talking on the phone and take a quick picture without anyone realizing it. >>

They could not only take your picture but they could instantly send it to an accomplace via the same cell phone. I don't think anyone should have their picture taken without their permission. Its just common courtesy. However, since when do thieves worry about courtesy?

ttxp · July 9, 2006 9:14PM

The simplest solution is that dealers only bring photos of their coins to the show, you know, sell the photo and not the coin. Statistically speaking, a dealer would be less likely to be robbed at gunpoint for a valet full of Polaroid's.

I can bring photocopied money (plus or minus 50% of its actual size of course), everyone is safe.

Coxe · July 9, 2006 9:28PM

<< 

<< Sounds like it would be next to impossible to enforce, you would have to ban cell phones which often have a picture taking
capability these days. Ban cell phones at coin shows?, I don't think that would be well received. I can understand dealers not
wanting their picture taken but for a professional thief wanting to do so it would be a losing battle trying to stop them. A thief
could be pretending to be talking on the phone and take a quick picture without anyone realizing it. >>

They could not only take your picture but they could instantly send it to an accomplace via the same cell phone. I don't think anyone should have their picture taken without their permission. Its just common courtesy. However, since when do thieves worry about courtesy? >>

Can't do a whole lot about thieves but we can get the message and I think people here got it.

The auction companies need to make sure people do not use cell phones on the floor of their auctions. If necessary, those folks should go outside even if one needs to talk with someone they are representing. (A courtesy in terms of disruption anyway.) Unlike a lot of dealers, bigger ticket collectors often are not public figures and do not want any publicity. Certainly, they make have fewer security resources at the show venue than a dealer. A team of thieves using cell phones to target such bidders could sour an important part of this market's inertia.

ABC123 · July 9, 2006 9:33PM

He who has the gold (coins) makes the rules !

Russ · July 10, 2006 2:03AM

<< try offering masks to the dealers for them to wear. >>

Some dealers probably already have their own.

Russ, NCNE

mozeppa · July 10, 2006 7:22AM

<< 

<< try offering masks to the dealers for them to wear. >>

Some dealers probably already have their own.

Russ, NCNE >>

no truer truth this is!

Dollars · July 10, 2006 7:26AM

I was thinking that it will keep things from getting Photoshopped

MrEureka · July 10, 2006 11:41AM

One argument in favor of allowing coin show photos...

Bochiman · July 10, 2006 11:46AM

<< One argument in favor of allowing coin show photos...

>>

Whatever floats your boat.
Now, if it had been a picture of Tassa or Lucy, then I would agree with you

Conder101 · July 10, 2006 10:55PM

<< those folks should go outside even if one needs to talk with someone they are representing. >>

And what if they are on the phone with them for instructions DURING the bidding on lots for that client? As them to pause while they go outside to get instructions?

Compa · July 11, 2006 1:34AM

<< One argument in favor of allowing coin show photos...

>>

Does he fetch?

Louis · July 11, 2006 1:37AM

Most thieves don`t like to have thier picture taken.

Please! No picture or video taking at Baltimore next week

Comments

Leave a Comment