Shill bidding (Major Auction)....you be the judge. Coin Received PICS ADDED

cmanbb · March 5, 2005 10:31AM

I participated in an auction (one of the big boys)..................tell me your opinion

Bids are accepted via phone,email,internet,regular mail, and floor

I bid XXXX.xx dollars (my max bid) via the internet approx 8 days prior to the auction ending.
(a strong bid I might add)
Three (3) days before the end of the auction, another "internet bidder" has bid the coin up 2.5 TIMES higher than my max bid
(keep in mind this coin has yet to make it to the floor bidders.)
I decide to let the coin go................too much money.
Today I receive an invoice for MY MAX BID plus the juice........................

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN

airplanenut · March 5, 2005 10:36AM

Call the auction company... they may let you off the hook (as they should), as you had no reason to expect to need the money for that auction...

Jeremy

LindeDad · March 5, 2005 10:37AM

Was the invoice pink?

wjd283 · March 5, 2005 10:38AM

<< HOW DID THIS HAPPEN >>

I'm not sure,but it don't sound good.I'd tell them"Sorry,but I was outbid and am no longer interested".

TommyType · March 5, 2005 10:44AM

Seems to me that with internet bidding, there's always the possibility that someone will overbid, either out of stupidity or maliciously, then back out. That might be how your bid suddenly became the "high bid".

However, there is no way an auction house, (major or not), should attempt to enforce your "high bid" without an explanation. At the very MOST you should be given the OPTION to buy. Sending out an invoice in a case like this is obscene.

cosmicdebris · March 5, 2005 10:53AM

Got any links?

cmanbb · March 5, 2005 10:54AM

Invoice was not pink.....

As for the internet bidder backing out, I watched that coin (to see if it would go even higher)
and the bid remained the same till auction day.

LindeDad · March 5, 2005 11:08AM

Reason I asked if it was pink is I recieved a pink invoice today for a coin that is already paid for. Hope your experience is with a different house.

pharmer · March 5, 2005 11:08AM

That's odd, and you can't find out until Monday. I'm glad you posted this, and hope you'll let us know it turns out. I would probably be intimidated into taking it since it was my bid, and if I didn't still want it, it would be nice to know what to do.

LeeG · March 5, 2005 11:19AM

Here we go again! Another Auction/Bid gone bad. I may have to stick with a few select dealers and local Coin Shops. Auction Houses may be getting to big to properly control the amount of lots their seeing. Customer Service may be a thing of the past.

bullseye · March 5, 2005 11:34AM

There seems to be lots of funky stuff happening at the major auctions lately.

cmanbb · March 5, 2005 11:59AM

First off, I'm not upset that I received an invoice for a coin I bid on.
I bid my max bid, if I won great. If I didn't win, so be it.
What I'm concerned about is............

If it had NOT been my max bid, and the bids went back & forth between me and "internet bidders",
am I bidding against myself due to the "internet bidders" being the house.

Just think IF I REALLY wanted that coin, and attempted to snipe/bid one more time...........

I don't beleive for a minute that the internet bidders backed out.

coinguy1 · March 5, 2005 9:31PM

<< Three (3) days before the end of the auction, another "internet bidder" has bid the coin up 2.5 TIMES higher than my max bid >>

If the bid had risen to "2.5 times" yours, presumably/hopefully at least two other bidders would have to be involved.

Under the circumstances described, I would require an acceptable/credible explanation before I would be willing to pay for and accept the lot as mine

MAD4MORGANS · March 5, 2005 9:46PM

Something stinks about this situation.

FullStepJeffs · March 5, 2005 9:47PM

My recent invoice I got in the mail 3 days ago was white... and a very similar situation... I learned from it I won't be doing business with that Auction House again.

Steve

tlhoy · March 5, 2005 9:48PM

<< 

<< Three (3) days before the end of the auction, another "internet bidder" has bid the coin up 2.5 TIMES higher than my max bid >>

If the bid had risen to "2.5 times" yours, presumably/hopefully at least two other bidders would have to be involved.

Under the circumstances described, I would require an acceptable/credible explanation before I would be willing to pay for and accept the lot as mine >>

darktone · March 5, 2005 9:57PM

and when the guy backs out it just so happens it's goes down to your max bid? Sounds like BS if the bid went 2.5X of your high bid there should have been two bidders higher than you that would have had to backed out and the chance there was a third bidder that bid you exactly up to your high bid is unreal odds. If this is not shilling it is something just as bad or worse. Mike

majorbigtime · March 5, 2005 10:46PM

As Jimmy Cagney said "I smell a rat".

DAM · March 5, 2005 11:13PM

cmanbb,

I've noticed this happening too, in the past couple of years. I'll be tracking a coin's bid and after the auction the coin will have sold for less than the highest internet bid, sometimes a lot less.

About 4 years ago I put in a max bid (internet) on a coin. The coin sold for one increment higher than my max bid. The next day I got a call from the auction house asking me if I'd like the coin for my max bid. Like you, I took the coin and was ok with it because I got it within my price limit.

Very suspicious!!!!

ER · March 5, 2005 11:22PM

MAD4MORGANS · March 6, 2005 12:12AM

Here's an interesting article about shill bidding, feedbacks, sniping and other items of interest FYI

FORBES ARTICLE ABOUT SHILL BIDDING, FEEDBACKS, SNIPING AND OTHER INTERESTING ITEMS

gemtone65 · March 6, 2005 12:15AM

One internet bidder cannot raise the prevailing high bid by more than one increment above your bid, assuming you are now the second high bidder. It doesn't matter how many times he bids or the amount he bids. The scenario you decribe can only occur if there are several bidders above your original bid, or if a late reserve is posted in addition to a bid exceeding that reserve.

Thereafter, it's possible that the high bidder changed his mind and decided to drop out of the bidding. The auction houses, however, are very reluctant to allow an internet bidder to renege. But, even so, that still doesn't explain how the prevailing high bid could have then dropped to your high internet bid. A scenario in which both higher bidders renege on the same lot is not plausible.

joeyuk · March 6, 2005 1:11AM

Something does smell foul here. I would have to see the bid history and pay
only the amount as if those that backed out had not bid at all. Not my max.

cmanbb · March 6, 2005 5:27AM

If I decide to do business with this auction company again it will only be on a coin I need/must have.
BUT one thing I learned from this is:

Place your max bid on a coin ONE TIME.
If another "internet bidder" has place a higher bid............let it go, (as I did)
because the house just might be bidding the coin up to get more money from me!

If you get an invoice, you go the coin at your price............(as I did)

Lastly............I don't know if it's ethical to name the auction house or not.
I don't want any leagal problems for voicing my opinion on this matter as to what I think happened.

aficionado · March 7, 2005 1:09AM

<< Something does smell foul here. I would have to see the bid history and pay
only the amount as if those that backed out had not bid at all. Not my max. >>

I agree. Why pay your max? Pay a dollar more than the previous highest bid. Probably the price as it was, prior to the big bidder coming in. I assume you where the high bidder at the time.

RYK · March 7, 2005 1:22AM

I don't know if it's ethical to name the auction house or not.

Just whisper into this little flower here....

money4money · March 7, 2005 7:30AM

Same thing just happened to me in todays mail...a lot I was outbid on, never gave it a second thought...in todays mail, an invoice for my MAX bid....I would love to know if its the same House I just got a bill from....anyone want to throw the gauntlet first?

rays · March 7, 2005 8:07AM

<< If I decide to do business with this auction company again it will only be on a coin I need/must have.
BUT one thing I learned from this is:

Place your max bid on a coin ONE TIME.
If another "internet bidder" has place a higher bid............let it go, (as I did)
because the house just might be bidding the coin up to get more money from me!

If you get an invoice, you go the coin at your price............(as I did)

Lastly............I don't know if it's ethical to name the auction house or not.
I don't want any leagal problems for voicing my opinion on this matter as to what I think happened. >>

I recommend calling them, provide your side, and see what their explanation is. If they have none, it would seem to me you are not obligated to buy the lot.

However, there may be more to this story than your bid and the "2.5X" internet bid. The reserve may have come into play.
Also, don't burn your bridges unless it is a lot of money. You may wish to bid again in the sales of this auction house in the future, and it may be worth it to just buy this lot.

tmot99 · March 7, 2005 8:20AM

Please, would someone tell us who the auction house is?

boyhowdy · March 7, 2005 10:15AM

Some of the house don't post their reserves until a while after the coin has been put up for sale.
Is it possible someone bid high knowing they were going to cancel the bid? I've seen people do that on eBay to
find what the sellers' hidden reserve is.

Steve

Boom · March 7, 2005 4:05PM

I know exactly what is going on here and it's not at all ethical. .

maddogale · March 7, 2005 8:02PM

cmanbb, you only gave YOUR OPINION as to what was "going on" with the auction house.....I seriously doubt those a$$holes have any leg to stand on to sue you.....aside from that, they are obviously making way too much money bidding stuff up on ohter internet bidding idiots who aren't paying attention.....(present company excluded, of course..

)

please do the rest of the forum member a favor.....and you others that deal with "internet rats" like this bunch please name the so called 'auction' house!!!

ER · March 7, 2005 10:36PM

<< If I decide to do business with this auction company again it will only be on a coin I need/must have. ................ >>

IMHO, no coin is a need/must have.

cmanbb · March 19, 2005 1:12PM

ConstellatioCollector · March 19, 2005 1:20PM

Little Help!...........

Send the coin back and say that I was not the high bidder.

cmanbb · March 19, 2005 1:25PM

Thanks CC

TerrapinWill · March 19, 2005 1:35PM

even though it was your max bid, I still wouldn't buy it. Seems to me you got screwed. Smells fishy to me....

I would call them and make an offer, lower than your max bid, see if they are interested, otherwise....

ConstellatioCollector · March 19, 2005 1:39PM

I get a little perturbed when things like this happen Send the coin back and state that you were not the high bidder and that they should resell the coin. If they conact you again state that you will pay less for the coin.

eyoung429 · March 19, 2005 3:06PM

It is interesting in the fact that the coin is off-struck. Are the scratches in the obv in the plastic or on the coin?

cmanbb · March 20, 2005 12:18AM

The sctatches are on the plastic.

Shill bidding (Major Auction)....you be the judge. Coin Received PICS ADDED

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