ETHICS QUESTION: I'm selling an NTC graded coin on eBay?

Aethelred · May 16, 2004 4:20AM

I am selling the following coin on eBay:

1970-S Cent NTC PR-68 RED CAMEO

I have provided the following disclosure in my listing (which is set to start later tonight):

*PLEASE NOTE: This coin has been graded by NTC (Numistrust Corporation). NTC is NOT one of the top tier grading services and one should not assume that a coin graded PR-68 CAMEO by NTC would receive the same grade at PGCS or NGC, nor have the same level of "market acceptance" as a coin of the same grade that has been graded by either PGCS or NGC. Please keep this in mind when placing your bid!

Is that enough? I have never sold an NTC or ACG graded coin on eBay before and don't want to ruin my rep or screw someone who might be a newbie!

goose3 · May 16, 2004 4:22AM

sounds more than fine to me. pretty neat coin. Bust it out and send to me. It's my birthyear!

prooflike · May 16, 2004 4:23AM

Delete the note and add how great the coin is

Barry · May 16, 2004 4:23AM

For me, no. I'd never even consider bidding on it, and if you made a "habit" of selling third-tier slabs, I wouldn't bid on your PCGS listings either.

IMHO, crack it out and list it raw. DOn't even mention the coin's sordid past history

darktone · May 16, 2004 4:24AM

I think you did much more than you had to already- I think most know these coins won't cross to a top tier service. mike

coinguy1 · May 16, 2004 4:26AM

Aethelred, that sounds very fair/reasonable.

I have a few questions for you - are there any problems with the coin that do not show up in the images? If so, I'd mention them. Are you selling it at no reserve? Or with a minimum bid or reserve that is far below what a PCGS or NGC one might bring?

Good luck with your listing.

Edited to add: I would add that PCGS or NGC might not give the coin the same designation, either.

Boom · May 16, 2004 4:29AM

Actually that is very well done. People aren't stupid....well most of them anyway. I think
that's an excellent disclaimer. Can't ask for better. I've actually had some good experiences
with NTC crackouts...an NTC 64 1932-S Quarter came back PCGS 63 and a couple similar.
Just got lucky and picked a few good ones for next to nothing!

ksteelheader · May 16, 2004 4:31AM

Seems adequate to me...Ken

Aethelred · May 16, 2004 4:33AM

<< ....and if you made a "habit" of selling third-tier slabs, I wouldn't bid on your PCGS listings either. >>

I usually avoid NTC, ACG, PCI, SEGS et cetera like they have an active herpes virus on them, but I liked this coin.

DHeath · May 16, 2004 4:34AM

Decent looking coin. The 70-S frequently tones like that, and the buyer will likely know what it is and buy it for the toning and not the grade. The difference in a PR66 toned cam and a PR68 toned cam is nominal ($10 coin in PR68 Cam in the C/U price guide). I saw a proof set with the same toning do $70 last year on Ebay. The holder doesn't hurt or help it to me. I'd remove NTC is NOT one of the top tier grading services and from my description, leave the rest, and offer a return policy. You make the same point in the rest of the disclosure without getting yourself in potential legal trouble.

There are lots of folks who buy only PCGS coins, but they'll likely not be your customer for that piece anyway unless you cross it. It's not a coin that makes sense to reholder. I wouldn't think any more or less of the seller for listing it like it is. JMO

BTW - Decent looking target toner. I've got it's twin in a 70 proof set.

Aethelred · May 16, 2004 4:35AM

<< Aethelred, that sounds very fair/reasonable.

I have a few questions for you - are there any problems with the coin that do not show up in the images? If so, I'd mention them. Are you selling it at no reserve? Or with a minimum bid or reserve that is far below what a PCGS or NGC one might bring?

Good luck with your listing.

Edited to add: I would add that PCGS or NGC might not give the coin the same designation, either. >>

No major problems IMO, but I don't think it would get a 68CAM at PCGS even on a good day. I am starting it at 99 cents with no reserve.

Russ · May 16, 2004 4:39AM

Aethelred,

Personally, I won't sell NTC, PCI Gold, ACG etc. and, when I do get them in, I crack them out and sell them raw. That said, I think your auction is just fine and may actually be helpful in educating newbies.

Russ, NCNE

Aethelred · May 16, 2004 4:43AM

<< That said, I think your auction is just fine and may actually be helpful in educating newbies.

Russ, NCNE >>

If I don't make a dime on it that would still be a good outcome!

rainbowroosie · May 16, 2004 5:19AM

That's a nice coin!!!

Myqqy · May 16, 2004 6:01AM

I think you did fine- To me, it's important that the coin be described properly, and then let people know that there is no assurance that any other professional grader would give it the same grade or designation. I think in cases like this, the ntc holder acts as a good protector for the coin as it makes its journey in the mail...

K6AZ · May 16, 2004 6:07AM

I don't have any problem with a seller selling such a coin with a disclosure like that. Tells me he is honest.

jdimmick · May 16, 2004 6:51AM

I agree, more than adequate desription and shows honesty. Also, I would have done what Mark F mentioned about stating it probably wouldnt holder at the same grade level if sent to a more reputable service.

jim

I have never offered an NTC or ACG slab on E-bay, but did the same with an ICG Modern DCAM coin that was a wee bit liberalllllll

tsacch · May 16, 2004 6:57AM

Very fair and accurate description. Now you just have to assume that people will give a darn and or read it.

TayTay · May 16, 2004 7:00AM

Well done IMO. I have seen buyers pay stupid money for NTC slabs, so they are out there. You may not reap as big a profit as you could, but you will benefit by knowing you are doing the right thing. I have sold one NTC slab on Ebay. It was graded MS68RD. I stated in my description that in my opinion it graded no higher than 66RD. Of course I lost money on it, (bought it when I was stupid

) but I felt better knowing that I at least tried. Your idea, I like even better

Aethelred · May 16, 2004 11:29AM

Based on the reply here I guess I am going to go ahead and let it run.

FC57Coins · May 16, 2004 11:31AM

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!

Aethelred · May 16, 2004 11:46AM

<< BURN THE WITCH!!!!!

>>

Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?

fullerfun4 · May 16, 2004 11:47AM

Nice disclaimer. And nice looking coin as well.

FC57Coins · May 16, 2004 11:50AM

<< Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science? >>

Red... no blue!

Aethelred · May 16, 2004 12:11PM

<< 

<< Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science? >>

Red... no blue! >>

This is supposed to be a happy occasion, lets not bicker and argue about who killed who!

Conder101 · May 17, 2004 1:13AM

Excellent disclaimer, and in my personal opinion one heck of an ugly coin. I hope you do well with it, it's just that I have never liked that weird looking target toning that so many of those things get. Target toning on many coins is good and I do like it but for some reason it just doesn't look right on proof cents. (Or on proof Ike dollars.)

flaminio · May 17, 2004 1:30AM

Your disclaimer is good, and I have no doubts on your integrity. However... my concern is with whomever ends up buying it. That person may not be so honest, and may try to resell the coin with the hype-machine on overdrive. It then gets bought by some newbie, and another innocent bystander is screwed by the bottom feeders.

IMHO, selling any bottom-feeder coin, regardless of disclaimers and intentions, is bad. Either bust it out and sell it raw, or cross it into one of the majors. For the good of numismatics, we should be working to get these bastards off the market, not perpetuate them.

UncleJoe · May 17, 2004 2:16AM

Now for the unpopular point of view.

I think the questions should be: Is it ethical to sell an NTC graded coin on eBay? Absolutely.

Is it necessary to write a disclaimer based on OPINION? Absolutely NOT.

As long as the coin is not misrepresented (and that does not mean that it is misrepresented by the grade given by NTC, the statement of the grade given by NTC is a FACT whether you agree with it or not) and as long as the picture is not doctored and is a reasonable likeness of the coin in hand you have no worries.

IMO. Joe.

Shamika · May 17, 2004 2:33AM

Aethelred,

I have to say that the coin looks pretty cool. I'd love to see it in person.

Your description is excellent. Good luck.

ETHICS QUESTION: I'm selling an NTC graded coin on eBay?

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