Options
Newbie question?
Meta
Posts: 62 ✭✭
Hello,
I've been lucky enough to have inherited a small collection of coins that belonged to my grandmother and grandfather. Prior to this I had no interest in coins, but since then I have spent quite a bit of time (too much?) researching and learning as much as I can about coins. Like most people who know nothing about coins I had assumed that condition was a secondary consideration for value, while rarity by `date' alone was most important. Little did I know that its ALL about the condition and the smallest of details can make or break the value of a coin. Though I am by no means an expert, I can, with enough examples to look at, fairly grade a coin within +/- one grade.....especially mint state gold coins that I spent the most time learning about. Along with a couple dozen morgans, some as good as MS60, most just average sliders, I inherited seven gold coins. They are as follows:
(2) 1913 $10 Gold Indian Eagles
(1) 1907 $10 Liberty Eagle
(2) 1911 $5 Indian Half Eagles
(1) 1912 $5 Indian Half Eagle
(1) 1915 $5 Indian Half Eagle
They all grade +/- MS65 by my standards....which are for the most part PCGS standards which I have used as examples to learn from. I don't intend on selling all of them, maybe just a few so I hedge my bet against them going down in value in the next several years. Its also hard to justify having so much tied up in coins when I am getting married in six months. In any case, what I am wondering is if there is a better submission strategy for these coins. I have the free submissions that come with the membership to PCGS, but it is limited to coins of much smaller value. I may save those freebies for the morgans and Ikes that I think might be worth a look. I was thinking the express special level is more suited. I also am not the most patient person and would like the coins back sooner rather than later. So, do I submit them ALL at once, in groups, one at a time? Will it make a difference at all?
On another note.......most of the morgans seem to have been taped with celophane tape to something at some point in their history which has left a plastic-like coating across the surface where the tape was applied. The strips really look like crap on some otherwise nice coins. The area around the plastic-like film layer has oxidized slightly where the area under the film is much `cleaner'. Is there a way to clean them to improve their value? I know cleaning is generally a bad idea, but are there exceptions? I will post some pics as soon as I figure out a way to get good ones with an older 1.3 megapixel camera that I have borrowed. The ones I have taken so far have WAY too much glare and are not in good detail. I think I need to see if the camera can do macro and rig up a diffuser booth with shopping bags like I saw someone do on another website. Any advice is MUCH appreciated!
I've been lucky enough to have inherited a small collection of coins that belonged to my grandmother and grandfather. Prior to this I had no interest in coins, but since then I have spent quite a bit of time (too much?) researching and learning as much as I can about coins. Like most people who know nothing about coins I had assumed that condition was a secondary consideration for value, while rarity by `date' alone was most important. Little did I know that its ALL about the condition and the smallest of details can make or break the value of a coin. Though I am by no means an expert, I can, with enough examples to look at, fairly grade a coin within +/- one grade.....especially mint state gold coins that I spent the most time learning about. Along with a couple dozen morgans, some as good as MS60, most just average sliders, I inherited seven gold coins. They are as follows:
(2) 1913 $10 Gold Indian Eagles
(1) 1907 $10 Liberty Eagle
(2) 1911 $5 Indian Half Eagles
(1) 1912 $5 Indian Half Eagle
(1) 1915 $5 Indian Half Eagle
They all grade +/- MS65 by my standards....which are for the most part PCGS standards which I have used as examples to learn from. I don't intend on selling all of them, maybe just a few so I hedge my bet against them going down in value in the next several years. Its also hard to justify having so much tied up in coins when I am getting married in six months. In any case, what I am wondering is if there is a better submission strategy for these coins. I have the free submissions that come with the membership to PCGS, but it is limited to coins of much smaller value. I may save those freebies for the morgans and Ikes that I think might be worth a look. I was thinking the express special level is more suited. I also am not the most patient person and would like the coins back sooner rather than later. So, do I submit them ALL at once, in groups, one at a time? Will it make a difference at all?
On another note.......most of the morgans seem to have been taped with celophane tape to something at some point in their history which has left a plastic-like coating across the surface where the tape was applied. The strips really look like crap on some otherwise nice coins. The area around the plastic-like film layer has oxidized slightly where the area under the film is much `cleaner'. Is there a way to clean them to improve their value? I know cleaning is generally a bad idea, but are there exceptions? I will post some pics as soon as I figure out a way to get good ones with an older 1.3 megapixel camera that I have borrowed. The ones I have taken so far have WAY too much glare and are not in good detail. I think I need to see if the camera can do macro and rig up a diffuser booth with shopping bags like I saw someone do on another website. Any advice is MUCH appreciated!
0
Comments
<< <i>I had assumed that condition was a secondary consideration for value, while rarity by `date' alone was most important. Little did I know that its ALL about the condition >>
Meta,
That realization alone already puts you ahead of the game.
I certainly understand impatience; it is one of my flaws. However, I think you need to be patient in this case. I think what I would do is start with just a couple of the coins to try and verify what you've learned about grading. That way, if you're on target you can send the rest in. But, if you're off target you can study some more before spending additional money on submissions.
Russ
<< <i>
<< <i>I had assumed that condition was a secondary consideration for value, while rarity by `date' alone was most important. Little did I know that its ALL about the condition >>
Meta,
That realization alone already puts you ahead of the game.
I certainly understand impatience; it is one of my flaws. However, I think you need to be patient in this case. I think what I would do is start with just a couple of the coins to try and verify what you've learned about grading. That way, if you're on target you can send the rest in. But, if you're off target you can study some more before spending additional money on submissions.
Russ >>
Oh....I forgot to mention that I took them into a local dealer when I basically knew very little other than the fact that I knew based on doing all of 30 minutes of research on the net that they could be worth a lot. The dealer offered me almost 10k for the bunch. I since have come to know that MANY dealers will basically steal coins from people who know little. He knew that I knew something so I feel he baited me with the 10k in hopes of making lots more. We all know that even just low-grading them all by just one grade consistently makes a HUGE difference in value (MS64 to 65...or worse 65 to 66) I have looked at THOUSANDS of MS 60-67 gold coins and can honestly say that mine are at least 64 and some possibly 66. I know they are worth grading to say the least, I'm just wondering if there is a better submission strategy to pursue.
My first thought is that it is very unlikely that, of the seven gold coins you have, ALL are MS65. Statistically, that's pretty unlikely. With that in mind I would follow Russ' advice and send in a couple. Other than that, the major consideration is the postage/insurance cost - obviously, cheaper per coin when you send in multiple coins.
I don't think there is a submission strategy to be concerned with.
About how many PCGS-slabbed gold coins have you looked at?
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>I have looked at THOUSANDS of MS 60-67 gold coins and can honestly say that mine are at least 64 and some possibly 66. >>
You may be right about the grades on the coins, but one of the things you need to realize is that gold is a very tricky animal. There are many ways the coins could be worked that are extremely difficult to detect by the untrained eye. That's why I think a cautious approach of sending in just a couple coins first makes the most sense.
Russ, NCNE
I don't see why not send in all the gold at once. I'd go with a regular submission as it is cheaper. I am very patient so could wait 6 weeks no problem. And you aren't planning on selling anytime soon anyway.
I am not sure if they would slab those Morgans with tape residue on them. I've heard that placing the coins in a bowl of acetone for a few minutes will disolve the gunk, but I have never tried it myself.
BTW some of those coins are very scarce in MS65+. Here is a photo of my 1907 Eagle. PCGS graded it MS 64. Personally I think it is the finest of the MS 64 1907 Eagles. There are only 4 coins graded higher.
I can think of a dozen reasons not to have high capacity magazines, but it's the reasons I haven't thought about that I need them.
It's good you have taken the time to research your inheritance, and seek advice. I think you ought to take some of the advice already given. And hopefully you haven't been reading the boards too long to influence your decision on your inheritance. Meaning, it doesn't always have to be about the MONEY, or the slab or the grade. Yes these are all important factors, but just think where they came from a little bit more.
You mentioned you're getting married soon, and I'm sure if you sell some of these coins to help finance (if that is your intention) your wedding, your Grandparents would have felt good to provide something to help this nice festive occasion.
You mention you have looked at "THOUSANDS" of gold coins and are pretty confident of your grading abilities? Where did you see all these since you mention you are new to coins? On the Internet? If so, yes images can help, but don't get too over confident. Can you tell if a coin has been cleaned, wiped, puttied?
Not trying to give a hard time, but being honest and trying to get you to think clearly.
I'm sure your Grandparents left these to you to do what you see fit with them. But to say you don't want to have that much tied up in coins when they were an inheritance baffles me.
How bout keeping one raw in their honor?
Hope it works out for you.
<< <i>First I will say welcome. I've always been a straight shooter in life and on here, so no sense in stopping or pulling any punches now.
It's good you have taken the time to research your inheritance, and seek advice. I think you ought to take some of the advice already given. And hopefully you haven't been reading the boards too long to influence your decision on your inheritance. Meaning, it doesn't always have to be about the MONEY, or the slab or the grade. Yes these are all important factors, but just think where they came from a little bit more.
You mentioned you're getting married soon, and I'm sure if you sell some of these coins to help finance (if that is your intention) your wedding, your Grandparents would have felt good to provide something to help this nice festive occasion.
You mention you have looked at "THOUSANDS" of gold coins and are pretty confident of your grading abilities? Where did you see all these since you mention you are new to coins? On the Internet? If so, yes images can help, but don't get too over confident. Can you tell if a coin has been cleaned, wiped, puttied?
Not trying to give a hard time, but being honest and trying to get you to think clearly.
I'm sure your Grandparents left these to you to do what you see fit with them. But to say you don't want to have that much tied up in coins when they were an inheritance baffles me.
How bout keeping one raw in their honor?
Hope it works out for you. >>
Thanks for all the advice. Its much appreciated. As for what I plan on doing with the coins, I will most likely sell a few of them as a hedge against the prices going down. I do plan on keeping several of them as both an investment and for sentimental reasons. I am a balance of practicality and sentimentality you might say. I'm a lot less concerned about my ability to grade the coins appropriately than I am about the +/- (1) grade that coins can receive in the grading process. It seems that there is often much to be debated amongst even the experts as to what grade mint state coins should receive within 1 grade +/-. I found the heritage auction site to be extremely valueable to teach me how to grade Mint state gold coins. Its there that I looked through tons of coins, from present and past auctions, to arrive at my conclusion that most of my coins are easily 64's and arguably 65's. You might even be able to make an argument for a 66 I suppose for some but that might be more of a stretch.....at least at PCGS standards. The 1907 MS64 that was posted, in my opinion, just going by the pic, which we all know can be not all telling, deserves a 65. The zoom features on the heritage site is amazing at looking at the finest details and I would imagine that not as much can be hidden, or would be hidden by them in their efforts to fully disclose their product. As for doctoring, cleaning, etc. The large area dealer that I went to would have certainly said something about this since it would have been further reason to pay less for them. I have also read up and looked at (on the net) doctored coins and can say with reasonable certainty that the coins have none of the attributes of adulterated coins. In any case I am really enjoying the entire process of learning something totally new. I have pawed through a lot of the coins that I had saved randomly from 25+ years ago myself and have found some interesting ones that I will look into. I wonder if the bug will bite me...........