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I'm interested in doing research on a particular coin. Specifically, I would like to find out why there were some 1949-S Franklins which were prooflike as the one shown below:

image

The coin comes from extremely polished dies, and it's the only Franklin issue that even comes close to having this type of surface to my knowledge. I've tried doing preliminary research via email and telephone calls and have gotten nowhere - now I'm thinking I'll have to get serious about this. Here's my starting point. When the Franklin half was launched in 1948, a number of gala events were held by then mint director Nellie Tayloe Ross to celebrate the new half which had been a pet project of hers. At these events, place cards were made with an example of the new Franklin half. There is documentation in Rick Tomaska's boo, that such an event took place at the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia in 1948.

Now - in speaking with several long time collectors, they seem to think that the 1949S prooflikes were the result of a similar gala event held to inaugurate the launching of Franklin Halves at San Francisco. What I want to do, is see if there is some long lost evidence of such a thing. A request to the San Francisco Mint from the director to have a number of halves prepared, mint records showing an initial striking of some sort and what it was for.

Any suggestions on where to start this little adventure would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Frank

Comments

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    CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,616 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Check out the coin clubs and show scene in the San Francisco area & find out who the oldtimers are. They may know stuff.......
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    TrimeTrime Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭
    Send a message to the coin dept of the Smithsonian
    Trime
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just a few questions:

    1. Do the PL's usually come from Mint Sets?

    2. Has anyone ever seen an original roll of PL 49-S halves?

    3. Do 49-S dimes and quarters ever show up in PL?

    Answers to the above might provide some useful perspective.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485
    Hey Andy, how about some answers (not questions) for Frank? image If Frank had wanted questions, he probably would have asked Seth first and you second.
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    BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    Though I don't have personal experience, someone I know has made several trips to the ANS for research and has been pleased. If you're near NYC, it would be easy. If not, maybe a call to them...
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    RittenhouseRittenhouse Posts: 565 ✭✭✭
    Since the dies were made in Philly, there MAY be something in either the Regional Archives at Philly or Treasury records at Nat Archives in DC. Try calling Matt Dibiase (pronounced Dee-Bee-aus-a) at 215-597-5694 and see if they have the corrsepondence with SF Mint for 48. They didn't have it cataloged last time I was there, but they still had boxes of stuff not cataloged.

    Other source is the Regional Archives in Calif. - think these would be in SF, but you'll have to check. When the Mint records were decessioned from the main archives in DC, the stuff for each mint was sent to the respective regional archives branch.

    You could also check with RW Julian (the noted author & fellow Rittenhouse member, not the Julian Leidman who posts here). If you don't have his email, send me an email (hvymtl@pa.net) stating what you want to know, who you are (name & a little background - sorry, but we like to know who we're talking to), & your email. I will discuss w/ Bob & have him contact you direct or reply.
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    FC57CoinsFC57Coins Posts: 9,140
    Andy - if I knew the answers to those questions I'd be ahead of the game! What I've been able to discern so far is basically this. There are very few of these pieces known. The numbers that I've heard are anywhere from 20-200. Where this number came from I don't know. I do know that the 49S Franklin is one of the few dates, if not the only date, that exhibits this type of surface. I've recently acquired the above specimen from a board member, and in looking at the piece, it literally looks like someone at the mint just buffed the heck out of the dies to make these pieces. Now it could've been to maybe repair a die clash or some such thing, but it just seems rather odd that so much effort would've been extended to doing this. In addition, the buffing extends to the devices as well as the fields, so one has to wonder if there was some added intent in making sure these pieces came out highly lustrous. In addition, the detail on the piece is outstanding. The three wisps, the Pass and Stow, and the bell lines are very bold, and the piece almost looks like it has a deeper strike than normal. So - what happened? That's where I'm at.

    Frank
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey Andy, how about some answers (not questions) for Frank?

    Mark - Unlike you, I don't have ALL the answers! However, I do know that I've seen enough PL 49-S halves over the years to suspect that many (if not all) were released through less interesting channels. The answers to my questions might help confirm or disprove my suspicion.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭


    << <i>However, I do know that I've seen enough PL 49-S halves over the years >>



    wow! in all my travels, I've yet to see one in over 30 years of collecting.....
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if I knew the answers to those questions I'd be ahead of the game!

    That makes two of us! However, there are plenty of old timers who have handled plenty of original rolls and Mint Sets, long before most were picked over and broken up. They should be able to answer my questions and help you solve your mystery.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    GDJMSPGDJMSP Posts: 799
    You could also contact the Mint directly and request the information you seek under the FOIA. It is a slow process - but you will get results.

    You could also do first hand research at NARA if you ever visit the area.
    knowledge ........ share it
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    DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Frank,

    Below is an excerpt from an email I got from Wayne De Cesar (NARA Archivist) in response to a similar inquiry of my own.

    I examined several series of headquarters records that appeared to pertain to your topic, but was unable to locate any information. Mint production records are usually housed in the Federal Record Center closest to the mint location. In this case, our Philadelphia facility. I suggest you contact them, 215-671-8074.

    I'll be making a trip up soon if you need me to take a look at a box for you.image

    Don


    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
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    airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,965 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try the ANA library... they may have a book/periodicle on the subject to loan to ya.

    Jeremy
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
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    foodudefoodude Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭
    Here are three people you could contact that might know the answer, as they are, or at one time specialized in Franklin halves- Rick Tomaska, Steve Leber, and Jack Ehrmantraut. Others that may be able to shed some light on your question include: Ron Iskowitz, and Rob Rose (see below).

    You mentioned Rick's book in asking your question, but you may wish to forward you question to him. I know that Steve Leber has been (exclusively?) dealing in Franklins for 10 years our more, and hence may be able to answer your question. I have not talked to Steve for about 3 years so I don't know how to contact him. I would run into him at the larger shows- Any one know how to contact Steve? If yes, please PM me and FC57 Coins.

    Jack Ehrmantraut dealt with Franklins in the 80’s and wrote the book "An Analysis Of Gem Franklin Half Dollars (published in 1983). This book references PL and semi-PL 1949-Ss. In his book he states:

    "Occasionally a semi prooflike to fully prooflike piece turns up. While some [people] consider these to be the ultimate rarity, this author does not. Most semi-prooflike or prooflike 1949-S's look horribly washed out, are stricken by a large number of heavy die polishing marks and have virtually no luster."

    “This author believes the finest known 1949-S prooflike was sold by Ron Iskowitz and Rob Rose of Renrob Coins Inc. to an Omaha collector at the 1982 Central States Convention for $1500. The piece was deeply prooflike, virtually mark free, toned a magnificent red and blue and had a superior strike.”


    Unfortunately, he does not provide any other information, but if it is possible to contact him, he might know the answer to your question. I did see in a thread several weeks ago that one board member said that Steve Leber had once worked with Jack (Jack helped train Steve?).

    Greg
    Greg Allen Coins, LLC Show Schedule: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/573044/our-show-schedule-updated-10-2-16 Authorized dealer for NGC, PCGS, CAC, and QA. Member of PNG, RTT (Founding Platinum Member), FUN, MSNS, and NCBA (formerly ICTA); Life Member of ANA and CSNS. NCBA Board member. "GA3" on CCE.
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    I am with Lucy on this one. I have owned 6-7, MS65/66 1949-S Franklin's. They have all had a Matte finish. I have seen 1948 Franklin's that were PL, but not 1949-S (most look like attached, MS66)
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    Conder101Conder101 Posts: 10,536
    If there were events held in SF similar to those in Philadelphia you may find mention of them in either The Numismatist or Numismatic Scrapbook from that time.
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    FC57CoinsFC57Coins Posts: 9,140
    Hey everyone - thanks for the wonderful information and keep the good posts coming. I've gotten a hold of the ANA already and will follow up with them this week, I will also try to get some of the contacts that have been mentioned thus far started.

    Thanks again! image

    Frank
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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,414 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Virtually all of the PL moderns I've seen have been from mint sets. There are a few
    coins which approach being common. While many dates don't seem to exist in PL,
    isn't it possible that many of these 49-S's are merely mint set coins. The mintage of
    sets was small but if only 2% were like this it would explain the estimated population.
    It is surprising that some of the later dates aren't much more common.

    People generally don't travel great distance to "galas" so the coins would tend to be
    concentrated in the area for decades. If there is no special packaging or they are un-
    aware that the coin is in some way special there would be a strong tendency for most
    individuals to simply spend the coin. Perhaps some of these have turned up in some
    sort of special packaging. You may want to try talking to people in the business in that
    area.

    By the same token if all these were regular production issues they could have been re-
    leased in a small area also. Even mint set coins have a tendency to bunch up like this,
    or at least they do nowdays.
    Tempus fugit.

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