Do you think the slab insert caused this toning?

mbbiker · February 5, 2003 12:17PM

These are two new additions to my PF roosie collection. The first one is a 1958 graded PF-68 the second one is a 1963 graded PF-68 cam. Both coins are NGC. The toning looks alot better than the pictures show (these are just some quick pics) the toning on the 58 is a nice purple the 63 is mostly blue. I think the toning was caused by the slab they are in the old NGC holder where the insert isn't seperate from the coin I included a picture of the slab. The reason i think the slab caused it is because the coins are toned on the top and only on the Obv. the same place as the paper. Am i right or wrong in assuming that the slab toned the coins?

eagle7 · February 5, 2003 12:24PM

I bet they look great in person! Ive looked at thousands of 58 proof sets and ive never seen the color you describe. They are probably very rare. A 58 proof dime in pr68 is hard enough to get any way. You have a nice one here!

wingedliberty · February 5, 2003 12:27PM

Very nice, I love em.

Brian.

darktone · February 5, 2003 12:44PM

Yes, they are very nice. One of these days I gotta look through my proof sets from the 1957-1972 and see if I got any that look like that. mike

mbbiker · February 5, 2003 2:18PM

ttt- question added to post.

coinguy1 · February 5, 2003 2:27PM

Edited to say : The toning appears to be the type that sometimes occurs after a coin has been encaspsulated.

mbbiker · February 5, 2003 2:33PM

Well now that we have an answer from THE coinguy, do you think it helps or hurts the value? Can toning cover Cameo because the 1963 is slabbed as CAM but the obv dosn't look it anymore.

oreville · February 5, 2003 2:35PM

I have some rare PR65 silver patterns (proofs) from the 19th century. The older NGC slabs on some of them has caused them to turn to a rose pinkish color and they look drop dead gorgeous.

The concern though is that how long is enough for these patterns? How much toning is TOO MUCH?

They might be getting ready for an intercept holder?

mbbiker · February 5, 2003 2:40PM

That is my concern to, Would NGC reslab these with the newer slabs to help prevent more toning? If they do what does it cost?

oreville · February 5, 2003 2:44PM

mbiker: wrong move.

mbbiker · February 5, 2003 2:54PM

<< <i>wrong move >>

braddick · February 5, 2003 3:21PM

I learned, talking with Larry Briggs over the phone last week that SEGS offers the only holder that completely separates the coin from the insert.
He also is a firm believer that the inserts tone (harm) coins- especially NGC and then followed by PCGS.

oreville · February 5, 2003 3:34PM

My position is that I would want to either use intercept holders around the NGC slab or get these coins crossovered to PCGS along with a intercept sleeve to stop further toning as well.

I am at that crossroads and mbiker looks to be also.

A perfect question for Mr. Hall.

mbbiker · February 5, 2003 3:38PM

<< <i>A perfect question for Mr. Hall >>

I agree i'm usually not on here Tuesday nights so you'll have to ask the question.

pmh1nic · February 5, 2003 10:21PM

I'd be interesting in knowing what exactly about this insert might have caused the toning (some property of the ink or paper). You would think that a company like NGC would go out of there way to use materials that would not react with the coin.

coinguy1 · February 5, 2003 11:41PM

pmh 1nic and others,

When I was working at NGC, I think I was told that at least two different chemists (or similar type experts) were consulted. They tested the holders, and grading labels, including the ink that was used on them, to make sure that they were inert. We were told that they were. I don't know what I can say, beyond that.

dorkkarl · February 6, 2003 12:34AM

my theory:

those dimes had something unusual on the surface that reacted w/ the vapors leeched out of the slab

all plastic produce gases - even "inert" plastic. it's a question of which plastic is more inert than others. i suspect the chemists that coinguy1 refers to meant their plastic is inert w/ respect to specific metals - but IF metal had something foreign on the surface, a chemical catalyst so to speak, it might actually encourage a chemical reaction.

all just a theory, i have no proof whatsoever

K S

RotatedRainbows · February 6, 2003 1:13AM

I have a couple of coins (Morgans and a shield nickel) that are in the original NGC holders from 87-88 and they show no toning at all so I doubt the NGC slab had anything to do with it.

KlectorKid · February 6, 2003 1:16AM

Very nice coin and I agree it looks like it toned in the slab.

Dog97 · February 6, 2003 4:16AM

I have some old NGC slabs and I am convinced that the coins in them toned after slabbing. They all have that strange dark blue purple color on the coin area nearest the paper insert.

Here's a clearly bag toned Morgan BUT it has peripheral tone on both sides. Text

Another strange peripreral: Text

I've had this one a number of years and watch the toning grow bigger: Text

Another bag toned with peripheral tone. The obv of this coin is next to the slab and the rev has air space between the coin & slab: Text

This crescent matches the angle of the coin in the holder, it's toned where the coin is away from the slab but where there is no air gap the it's untoned. It's not a crescent from another coin laying on top of it in a mint sack. Text

These coins are not flat in the holder & seem to tone in the holder where there is room for air and do not tone where the coin is against the slab.

airplanenut · February 6, 2003 4:37AM

MB,

Just post on the Q&A now... he will review it on Tuesday, then reply... you can post there anytime, the Tuesday bit is just when he has designated time to reply.

Jeremy

Do you think the slab insert caused this toning?

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