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Clad type B finds
Hellgee
Posts: 3
This post is in response to a post by Dlmtorts which appeared in one of the threads on type B's in general.
My friend and I search for type B's, both silver and clad. After looking at approximately 700,000 coins we have both been successful in putting together complete sets of silver and clad type B's.
We have found many silvers from circulation and dealers inventories. The clad's are a different story. Listed below are our combined clad totals (all from circulation).
1969 D 7
1970 D 4
1971 D 2
1972 D 2
I hope this post will prompt others to chime in with there clad Type B results.
Has anyone everfound a clad type B in a mint set?
Thanks
Hellgee
0
Comments
I am not aware of any clad B's in mint sets. But Proofartworkoncircs and Cladking are much better experts on that subject than I am.
Oh and welcome! Great first post!
<< <i>This post is in response to a post by Dlmtorts which appeared in one of the threads on type B's in general.
My friend and I search for type B's, both silver and clad. After looking at approximately 700,000 coins we have both been successful in putting together complete sets of silver and clad type B's.
We have found many silvers from circulation and dealers inventories. The clad's are a different story. Listed below are our combined clad totals (all from circulation).
1969 D 7
1970 D 4
1971 D 2
1972 D 2
I hope this post will prompt others to chime in with there clad Type B results.
Has anyone everfound a clad type B in a mint set?
>>
Welcome aboard.
They used few dies for mint sets so if there were one in a mint set then there'd be thousands.
Are the type b's typical for grade. Now days that will mean most are VG though a '72-D might
be nicer. There's a tendency for varieties to be a little higher grade since collectors sometimes
remove them for decades though I doubt this will apply to the type b's.
Congratulations! These might prove to be rare coins if people continue to ignore them.
<< <i>
<< <i>This post is in response to a post by Dlmtorts which appeared in one of the threads on type B's in general.
My friend and I search for type B's, both silver and clad. After looking at approximately 700,000 coins we have both been successful in putting together complete sets of silver and clad type B's.
We have found many silvers from circulation and dealers inventories. The clad's are a different story. Listed below are our combined clad totals (all from circulation).
1969 D 7
1970 D 4
1971 D 2
1972 D 2
I hope this post will prompt others to chime in with there clad Type B results.
Has anyone everfound a clad type B in a mint set?
>>
Welcome aboard.
They used few dies for mint sets so if there were one in a mint set then there'd be thousands.
Are the type b's typical for grade. Now days that will mean most are VG though a '72-D might
be nicer. There's a tendency for varieties to be a little higher grade since collectors sometimes
remove them for decades though I doubt this will apply to the type b's.
Congratulations! These might prove to be rare coins if people continue to ignore them. >>
Thanks for posting this. Though I haven't had time to jump in on the varieties, I am enjoying putting together a regular clad set from circulation and appreciate any perspective on them. I, too, find that the more sought-after dates can be found in nicer condition, I presume for the reasons that CK stated. Your post will spur me on to look for some varieties!
The clad type B's we found run fro VG to XF. One of the 72 D's is a nice XF.
I have sent my clad B's to Dr. Wiles for his use in die studies. My 72 D was VG or F. Dr. Wiles noted die cracks running through the first s in STATES.
The circulation quarters that we search come from a supermarket coin machine. I have also found some interesting doubled dies including a 1971 P DDR-001, 1970 D DDO-001 and 2 1966 P DDR-001's.
Another sideline is Wyoming quarter DDR's. OF the 51 coins on the Variety VIsta site, I have submitted 34. I think Dr. Wiles cringes when he gets a package from me.
Happy searching,
HELLGEE
I guess I should forget about the Easter Bunny bringing me one of these and just start searching through some boxes of korters.
Better yet, turn on your PM function so we can negotiate some prices........
The name is LEE!
From 1973-1988 I went through approximately 715,500 clad quarters and found
1969 D B 53
1970 D B 21
1971 D B 3
1972 D B 2
I also bought and sold an additional 1971 D B.
Now I am curious. Do your 1971 D B's have a die chip at the upper right vertex of M in UNUM? It looks a little like a die crack heading NE.
Since it has appeared on all 4 that I have seen, I think it indicates 1971 D B is a one die coin. 1972 D B does not have the chip, but is equally rare so it is probably another one die coin.
Edited to replace NW with NE. Please forgive my senior moment.
<< <i>Welcome and Congratulations.
From 1973-1988 I went through approximately 715,500 clad quarters and found
1969 D B 53
1970 D B 21
1971 D B 3
1972 D B 2
I also bought and sold an additional 1971 D B.
Now I am curious. Do your 1971 D B's have a die chip at the upper right vertex of M in UNUM? It looks a little like a die crack heading NW.
Since it has appeared on all 4 that I have seen, I think it indicates 1971 D B is a one die coin. 1972 D B does not have the chip, but is equally rare so it is probably another one die coin. >>
Wow!
...All those nice XF's and AU's!!!
I suppose these will be so scarce that grade doesn't matter too much anyway.
It sure would be nice to know where the '71's and '72's were released. After all
these years there's no real chance that circulated coins would still show any level
of concentration at that location but it would sure be fun to see if you can find any
BU rolls.
Judging by the numbers I'd guess they were released oin the opposite side of the
country from you. And the '68 and 9 were released mid-country.
Hey folks! The existance of these coins from the Denver really puts some MEAT into the idea that the 1971-D Eisenhower RDV-006 Dollar was intended to be the reverse of the Proof coin for 1971/1972 Eisenhowers! (Ref Link)
The Type B Reverse Washington is without a doubt the intended design for proof coins AND those dies were shipped from Philadelphia to San Francisco for production of the 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971 and 1972 Proof coins. It is now obvious, that some of the dies did not meet quality standards and/or had been used during proof production and subsequently got shipped to Denver to save some costs. The dies were then given the D Mintmark and used on the production line.
Since this appears to have occured during 68-72 for the quarters, why is it so unbelievable for the Dollars?
Now..........back to your regularly scheduled program.
The name is LEE!
No modifications required. The mint mark is now on the obverse.
Other items that originated in San Francisco were the silver planchets for the 1974 D and 1977 D dollars and the 1970 D quarter planchets made froim dime stock. The dies for the 1969 D M's probably originated there too.
I forgot to respond to the question about how long it took us to find the two sets of clads. We have been looking at circ quarters for about three years. The volume of coins has increased year to year. We did 400,000 in 2009 bringing our total to 700,000. I suspect we will continue till our supply of quarters shuts off or we become blind. We do have some slave labor to help us. My wife sorts the coins. She loves to find the silvers. Her record is 96 silvers from a bag of 4,000 coins.
We are located in northeastern PA.
The die chip or die crack at the top right of the M in unum is present on on both of our 71 d's.
There is one common die crack on the 72 D's from the top of the eagles wing to the E in E Pluribus. This crack is very faint. One of the coins shows two more pronounced cracks from the rim, through first s in states, to the eagles wing.
Can anyone provide the current POP reports on the clads from PCGS or NGC (if they grade them) ?
Thanks,
HELLGEE
<< <i><<The dies were then given the D Mintmark and used on the production line.>>
No modifications required. The mint mark is now on the obverse. >>
DUH!
Thanks Herb! The same is true of the RDV-006!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Not to hijack the thread but...............
Hey folks! The existance of these coins from the Denver really puts some MEAT into the idea that the 1971-D Eisenhower RDV-006 Dollar was intended to be the reverse of the Proof coin for 1971/1972 Eisenhowers! (Ref Link)
The Type B Reverse Washington is without a doubt the intended design for proof coins AND those dies were shipped from Philadelphia to San Francisco for production of the 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971 and 1972 Proof coins. It is now obvious, that some of the dies did not meet quality standards and/or had been used during proof production and subsequently got shipped to Denver to save some costs. The dies were then given the D Mintmark and used on the production line.
Since this appears to have occured during 68-72 for the quarters, why is it so unbelievable for the Dollars?
Now..........back to your regularly scheduled program. >>
My exact thoughts when I found my first 69-D UNC Type "B" Reverse Washington.
Stew
<< <i>I forgot to respond to the question about how long it took us to find the two sets of clads. We have been looking at circ quarters for about three years. The volume of coins has increased year to year. We did 400,000 in 2009 bringing our total to 700,000. I suspect we will continue till our supply of quarters shuts off or we become blind. We do have some slave labor to help us. My wife sorts the coins. She loves to find the silvers. Her record is 96 silvers from a bag of 4,000 coins.
We are located in northeastern PA.
The die chip or die crack at the top right of the M in unum is present on on both of our 71 d's.
There is one common die crack on the 72 D's from the top of the eagles wing to the E in E Pluribus. This crack is very faint. One of the coins shows two more pronounced cracks from the rim, through first s in states, to the eagles wing.
Can anyone provide the current POP reports on the clads from PCGS or NGC (if they grade them) ?
>>
Thanks for the info.
I'm pretty sure they aren't gradsing them yet but are talking about it.
I'll wager ProofArtWorkonCircs will be even motre excited about it.
Not that I am aware of, but 1970 D in the mint sets are most apt to be type M, the most common proof only design in 1968. It was never used for proofs after 1968 but appears on a minority of 1969 D, 1970 D and 1970 Philly.
My search for clad B's was in Massachusetts. My sucess in so many 1969's and 1970's as compared tio the original poster was probably the fact I started in 1973 when there were very few 1973's around. There are not many quarters in circulation today that are pre 1973. I did pick up one 1969 D B in Honolulu in 1984.
There was a report that ANACS POP's were way out of date, but their web site says it is complete and updated quarterly for problem free coins. They report 2 1970 D B's in the 40-45 grade. There was a TPG circulated 1970 D B with scratches in a Heritage auction a few years ago.
Based on my experience, you would need about 4 rolls of 1969 D to find a single B. Actual ratio was 1 out of 114.24 1969 D's.
And likewise 19-20 rolls of of 1970 D (1 in 723.86) (Gosh, you should have found one.)
and 70 rolls of 1971 D (1 in 2,783)
and 208 rolls of 1972 D (1 in 8,316)
<< <i><<I have gone through 40 original rolls of 71d, around 20 rolls of 70d, and a dozen OBW rolls of 72d with no success. With the price of 69d rolls, it is cost prohibitive to even buy those, let alone find OBW examples.>>
Based on my experience, you would need about 4 rolls of 1969 D to find a single B. Actual ratio was 1 out of 114.24 1969 D's.
And likewise 19-20 rolls of of 1970 D (1 in 723.86) (Gosh, you should have found one.)
and 70 rolls of 1971 D (1 in 2,783)
and 208 rolls of 1972 D (1 in 8,316) >>
Yeah Right Herb!
I've yet to see a single roll of 1972-D Washington's up for sale anywhere much less 208 of them! Same for the 1971-D's!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
Yeah Right Herb!
I've yet to see a single roll of 1972-D Washington's up for sale anywhere much less 208 of them! Same for the 1971-D's!
The ironic thing is that '72-D is probably the most common of all clad quarter rolls other than the 1965.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Yeah Right Herb!
I've yet to see a single roll of 1972-D Washington's up for sale anywhere much less 208 of them! Same for the 1971-D's!
The ironic thing is that '72-D is probably the most common of all clad quarter rolls other than the 1965.
And the net result is that these would be the first to go. What I mean is this if folks think they are common, why set them aside?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Yeah Right Herb!
I've yet to see a single roll of 1972-D Washington's up for sale anywhere much less 208 of them! Same for the 1971-D's!
The ironic thing is that '72-D is probably the most common of all clad quarter rolls other than the 1965.
And the net result is that these would be the first to go. What I mean is this if folks think they are common, why set them aside? >>
There's a tendency with clad rolls that more get set aside when they are good quality. There's
also a tendency for more Denvers to be saved independently of the better quality. The economy
was fairly strong in '72 and this was a great year for quality. Mint set sales were up and people
werte just in the mood to set aside clads. These are probably the most common clad quarter roll
but even as such that was probably fewer than 400,000 coins that were actually saved and most
of these are gone now. It's still the mostr common clad roll though.
Just because there are so many doesn't mean even a single type "b" survived. These would have
been released in only a few areas and someone would have had to have saved some coins there.
Maybe Hawaii, eh?
Thanks.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=627990&highlight_key=y&keyword1=type m
<< <i> >>
Hhhhmmmmm
<< <i>
<< <i> >>
Hhhhmmmmm >>
Why'd you edit your Link?
The name is LEE!
Do you think the die cracks led to the early failure of the die?
I calculated the probable mintage of thes clad B's bases on my experience in the Massachisetts area. I was finding 1 1969 D B in every 114.24 1969 D's. The mintage was 114.37 million. Based on those figures the total mintahge of 1969 D B's was 1,001,100. I also calculated it on the basis of 1 1969 D B in every 13,500.4 total quarters. Assuming an average circulation of 14 billion (in the 1973-1988 oeriod), this gives a mintage of 1969 D B's of 1,037,000. The two numbers are in good agreement. The big question is how would this turn out in other sections of the country?
Anyhow in a similiar manner I calculated by mintage and then total circulation the following figures:
1969 D B 1,001,100 and 1,037,000 average 1,019,050 round numbers 1,000,000
1970 D B 576,500 and 410,900 average 493,700 round numbers 500,000
1971 D B 92,900 and 58,700 average 75,800 round numbers 80,000
1972 D B 37,400 and 39,100 average 38,250 round numbers 40,000
This is sort of fuzzy math, but it is all I have.
n