*****Let's hear from the Bust guru's - how about some input*****
FinallyHere
Posts: 821 ✭✭✭
I recently purchased this 1837 R. E. 50c. For the purposes of this post I've only posted the reverse. This is a JR-12. Take note of the depressed circle located dead center (lower left area of the horizontal lines in the shield). This is clearly mint made and is a perfect circle. There is luster down in this depressed area as well as a raised die line in the lower left portion of this depressed area. Reiver concludes this to be an "incuse center dot" but personally I don't buy that. There is NOTHING on the obverse corresponding to this depressed area. I'm pretty sure center dots were not used on R. E. halves and this is one heck of a center dot in terms of size if in fact that's what it is. Any input is welcome and appreciated.
Edited to add requested obverse image
Edited to add requested obverse image
0
Comments
They were created as a necessary compass point centering position to scribe the lines of the denticles at the outer rim. These "dots" can be found on both obverse and reverse dies (especially on the half dollars). Apparently, it was also used to help center the hub when creating the working dies. It may have even been created by part of the hub transfer process.
These were not punched in on the planchet, thus, it didn't affect the opposite side in any way.
The circular scribe lines can be seen on some of the uniface splashers and trial pieces made from different hubs and dies of the time period around the 1830s & 1840s.
There are other articles about these in the numismatic literature such as the JR Journal, and the Wiley / Bugert book on Seated Half Dollars.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
There are the raised dots on the coins themselves, these are relatively plentiful, and found on various denominations. These are the "compass point" dots, which are smaller.
Then there are the depression "dots" which are found mostly on Half Dollars. Wiley/Bugert write about this depression "dot" after an 1853 on page 104 of their excellent work - "Most tail dies have an interesting "hole" characteristic in the first set of three bars on the reverse die. This was most likely caused by a centering tool to accomplish reverse hub work and is similar in nature to the 1843 and 1844-O "compass point" head dies".
I've seen a partial depression (actually a flat spot on the die surface) in the center of a raised centering circle on a few quarter eagles from the 1840's. The 1850 & 1858 QE plated in the Aker's volume has the depression centering dot (hole?) that is identical to the 1837 half in this thread. All of the details are missing inside the dot area.
At this point, there is no Mint documentation to validate what actually caused these. It was most likely from a work-in-progress modification.
A weakness with this explanation is that any other working dies made from this hub would also display this dot. If anyone has other high grade REs, check for evidence of refinishing at this spot.
Where is Kraljevich when we need him?
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/department/us-coins
It may also be an artifact of the lathe used to turn down the hub stock. This would explain its size.
If you aren't on vacation,,,could you provide us with the obverse image and the
diameter size of your coin please.
R.I.P. Bear
of what looks to be a great coin?
Camelot
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/department/us-coins
Edited to add: tongue-in-cheek comment, not meant to offend dealers.
Camelot
K
Almost forgot ....
My 1866 Philly Mint Set